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Old 05-31-2009, 09:59 PM   #11
Wavery
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Harvey,
You're way out of bounds here.

First, you're not a lawyer and you shouldn't be giving people legal advice. You can't spell "civil suit" let alone address the issues involved in establishing the proper case for one. You certainly can't guarantee ANYTHING.

Second, If you happen to know of a single case anywhere in America where a trial judge had the attention span to get down to the liabilities presented by a recreational vehicle that's 15% overweight to make it "criminal negligence", please share it with us. Our TrailManor owners have trouble figuring through the numbing details of these things, and I'd be surprised to hear of police or judges who weren't satisfied with "failure to maintain control of a motor vehicle", "driving too fast for conditions", or "following too closely behind another vehicle" in favor of much harder to prove charges.

And Third, There are a lot of variables, some of which can cause accidents and some which just cause transmission repairs, and it's not always easy to know which is which. The presence or absence of a transmission cooler doesn't seem like a safety item to me.

Let's allow the justice meted by our wives and warranty holders to prevail in cases of equipment failures, instead of prematurely involving the lawyers and courts!
Are you telling this person that it is OK to tow with this vehicle or just spouting off? Sounds like you are the one giving "Legal advise" here. .

Not referring to this particular poster or circumstances....... If someone were to hit my family car and one of my family were injured or killed and I found out that the vehicle hit us because it were unable to stop due to towing a trailer that the vehicle was not rated to tow, charges would be filed. If this vehicle was a company owned vehicle, that company, the driver, the insurance company and anyone that I could find that advised the driver that is was "OK" would be named in a suit.......trust me.

BTW........I never said that a suit would prevail. However, if I were an employer and one of my employees got me involved in a law suit (over something like this), I would not be happy. THAT was my point......
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:10 PM   #12
mcgyver210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure View Post
Harvey,
You're way out of bounds here.

First, you're not a lawyer and you shouldn't be giving people legal advice. You can't spell "civil suit" let alone address the issues involved in establishing the proper case for one. You certainly can't guarantee ANYTHING.
WOW I didn't notice Harvey say he was a Lawyer you must have read something I didn't. Maybe you are though since you attack like one LOL ROFL.

I have always had a real problem with someone that makes fun of someone else's spelling on a board I think it is non productive & CHILDISH IMO. It also makes people scared to post even if you are just kidding it can make someone not post. In the year I have been here this is the first time I have seen this kind of posting. It is very disappointing to say the least.


Don't be so hard on Harvey he is actually correct in his way of thinking especially in the Litigious Society we live in today. No one should take advice on the internet without being cautious & using common sense. I am a business owner & have paper work for the paper work now days. I am made fun of by some in my industry for the extremely stringent safety measures I take because of what could happen.

I apologize if my comments are out of Place but I am not known for keeping quiet when something bothers me & your post really hit a nerve.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by harveyrv View Post
Are you telling this person that it is OK to tow with this vehicle or just spouting off? Sounds like you are the one giving "Legal advise" here.

Not referring to this particular poster or circumstances....... If someone were to hit my family car and one of my family were injured or killed and I found out that the vehicle hit us because it were unable to stop due to towing a trailer that the vehicle was not rated to tow, charges would be filed. If this vehicle was a company owned vehicle, that company, the driver, the insurance company and anyone that I could find that advised the driver that is was "OK" would be named in a suit.......trust me.
Harvey,
A friend in the car business told me that durability issues are a big part of the way they rate tow vehicles. Therefore, the tow rating in the owners' manual is not just about safety. Your point that the company is always involved in a company car is a good thing to consider, but both they and the RV driver are presumably insured like every vehicle and driver should be.

I'm usually very careful not to tell other people what to do, though I occasionally offer an opinion about what I think I might do in a similar circumstance. I don't think I told this minivan driver anything I'd have to apologize for in a court of law or elsewhere. I'm not a lawyer, but the law is written in English and available for us to learn things. I don't think I went beyond Civics 101 in my post.

However, I could have been more civil, and I apologize for my choice of words. My objection remains to your suggestion that the driver of a moderately overweight RV risks being charged with criminal negligence, simply because I don't believe such a thing could be easily determined and therefore such a case has probably never happened. If there is something you know, please share it. Otherwise it's wrong to be telling people these things.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:20 AM   #14
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Harvey,
A friend in the car business told me that durability issues are a big part of the way they rate tow vehicles. Therefore, the tow rating in the owners' manual is not just about safety. Your point that the company is always involved in a company car is a good thing to consider, but both they and the RV driver are presumably insured like every vehicle and driver should be.

I'm usually very careful not to tell other people what to do, though I occasionally offer an opinion about what I think I might do in a similar circumstance. I don't think I told this minivan driver anything I'd have to apologize for in a court of law or elsewhere. I'm not a lawyer, but the law is written in English and available for us to learn things. I don't think I went beyond Civics 101 in my post.

However, I could have been more civil, and I apologize for my choice of words. My objection remains to your suggestion that the driver of a moderately overweight RV risks being charged with criminal negligence, simply because I don't believe such a thing could be easily determined and therefore such a case has probably never happened. If there is something you know, please share it. Otherwise it's wrong to be telling people these things.
Tow ratings and GCVWR are mainly based on the vehicle's ability to stop a certain amount of weight within a certain distance in order to conform to NTSB laws. That is where the legality issue comes in. If an infraction occurs it is a simple matter of weighing the vehicles involved and determining whether the driver exceeded the vehicle's maximum weight ratings by deciding to drive the car towing that weight. There is nothing to prove. It's either over or under. Simple math. In the case of a death, I am pretty sure that the Police would have the vehicles weighed as part of a "Cause of Death" investigation. I would be very surprised if they didn't.

I don't have any case history in front of me and I have no desire to dig it up or argue the case. It's common sense.

It is true that the manufacturers do also consider the vehicle's ability to tow the weights that they advertise based on the mechanical ability of the vehicle, to protect the manufacturer against warranty issues. However, they will always advertise the maximum amount allowed by NTSB, as long as the vehicle can either #1 not exceed the stopping distance or #2 not harm the manufacturer's warranty policy. They do that to protect market share. It's a fine balancing act.

The point is, once a vehicle operator decides to operate a motor vehicle that exceeds the manufacturer's ratings, that person is not only violating the vehicles warranty, that person is violating the law (these limits are "Legal" limits) and is on his own. In fact, if a Highway Patrol Officer sees a vehicle that is towing over-weight, he has a right to have that vehicle either pull into a weigh station (where the driver may be forced to leave his trailer if it's over-weight) or leave the trailer on the side of the road, in extreme cases. Why do they do that?????? To protect public safety......they don't care if the vehicle breaks down, That's the driver's problem. They care that the vehicle may not be able to stop in the event of an emergency and that life and property could be at risk. Pure and simple.

I just want to repeat......this is not in reference to the vehicle or it's tow in this current thread.

No apology needed. You have a right to voice your opinion as anyone does. I'm always up to a good discussion and/or correction. I think that we all learn something from these discussions, whether we agree or not. At least it gets us thinking.......
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:30 AM   #15
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Harvey I have been on many ride a longs with police & I can say here at least I have never seen a vehicle weighed that has been in a fatal wreck with the exception of a Tractor Trailer that is. I guess it is kinda like very seldom is a crime scene investigated like on the TV CSI shows. Most Law enforcement agency don't even have the equipment used by TV cops.

Although I do agree with you on the legality of overloading a vehicle. If you are driving a Tractor trailer it is a big deal if you are caught over weight but in all reality it isn't about safety as much as it is about government making money on the fines IMO.
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:56 AM   #16
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OK, boys, let's tamp it down or take it off line. We are no longer helping the OP or contributing to a better answer.

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