Broke Down, Brake Failure, Weekend plans ruined.

Well we started on our second trip with the TM. This was to be a short trip, about 100 miles. We got the family and gear packed up and took off after work tonight. Stopped for dinner about 20 miles out. Got back into the TV after about 1/2 hour, but noticed the brake controller was blinking a CS error code, but for some reason we got on the freeway anyway. After a couple of minutes, my husband decided to pull off the freeway because it wasn't going away and we forgot the guide book for the controller so we were concerned and uninformed. We pulled over and turned the Sienna off. We tried to figure out what was wrong, but no luck. So we tried to move the Sienna, and we couldn't get it out of park. So that was that. We called a tow truck and had someone come get us and bring us home. The tow truck driver was able to get it out of park, but the TV and TM had no brake working brake lights and he said the brake pedal went to floor (TM is disconnected and moved away from TV at this point). So hopefully the mechanic can fix our van tomorrow. We checked out the "CS" code in our book at home. It is a "charging system error" which is explained as "A charging system problem or an inadequate connection to the tow vehicle's battery. The unit will reset once the situation is corrected." We tried unplugging the connection and reconnecting it. Anyone have any input or experience with this kind of problem? I am so disappointed.

[Bill]

Wow! I'm sorry to hear of your ordeal, Liz.

From your description, you have several symptoms that seem only vaguely related. I certainly can't see a common cause. I hope your mechanic can find it and fix it quickly.

1. Brake pedal goes to the floor. This means that the hydraulic system in the tow vehicle has failed somehow. The brake controller for the TM doesn't connect to the hydraulic system, so as Leon says, this is a tow vehicle problem.

2. Can't get it out of park. On most modern vehicles, you have to step on the brake pedal before you can move the transmission lever out of park. But since the brake pedal was doing strange things, this linkage might have been fouled up. So given the first problem, this one kinda makes sense. Again, a tow vehicle problem.

3. Charging system failure or inadequate connection to the battery. This could be a failure in the tow vehicle's alternator or battery (or a loose battery connection), resulting in a very low voltage on the tow vehicle's 12-volt system. This would be enbtirely independent of the TM - but I don't see how it relates to the brake problems. Or it might be a problem with the brake controller's installation. What controller do you have? Who put it in for you? The symptom of "no brake lights" could result from either problem. The brake controller wires may indeed have been misconnected, but if this were the case, it should have shown up right away, not on your second trip out. Loose connections, of course, would be another story.

Bottom line, there isn't much in the TM that could cause this collection of symptoms. Please let us know what the mechanic finds. This might be valuable information for other owners.

Bill

Bill, the electronic brake control is a Journey HD.

Well, it's the morning, first thing, after the brake/transmission issue.

My friend told us that if we blew a fuse that controlled some part of the TV brake, that the vehicle will not go out of park because it is a safety feature of newer vehicles. I personally think it is something to do with the new electrical/fuse system that was installed. (We used a dedicated hitch installation shop to install everything, so I am fairly confident about our choice - also, he installed a Toyota wire harness for the tow package if that has anything to do with anything.)

The tow truck driver popped a little ~1.5 cm button cover immediately next to the transmission "stick", stuck his finger in there, and pushed a button to overide the stick to get it out of park and into neutral to move it onto the tow truck. When I pressed the brake earlier and tried to move it into drive, the brake pedal was firm and pumped-up because of all our attempts to start the vehicle. But when the tow truck driver put it into park, the pedal went all the way down he said.

We are waiting to hear back from the dealership service department about how long this will put us out of commission.

On a side note, two weeks ago we set up the TM at our house to get it stocked up and committed a newbie mistake. We left it connected to our Sienna all night. The next morning the Sienna was dead and we had to jump it (we disconnected the TM, jumped the Sienna, drove it a while, then reconnected and moved the TM back into the driveway). I am wondering if that was a contributing factor to some kind of electrical issue, but I really don't think so.

Another note, we have not had any issues with the Sienna since we bought it over a year ago, so I think it is related to adding the towing upgrades and electrical work that was done in May. (But/And there have been no issues during our normal, daily use of the Sienna.)

[Bill]

Liz -

Oh ho! So that is what the little cover on the steering column is for!

I have to agree, it sounds like a problem related to the recent electrical work. Like you, I think that running down the Sienna's battery was not wise, but it probably has nothing to do with what is happening now.

On a more sober note, the Valley Industries Journey brake controller is a time-cycle controller. You might want to read Rocky_Mtn_Ray's article on brake controllers in this board's Technical Reference Library (aka TM Info You Won't Find Anywhere Else). This has nothing to do with your recent problem, of course.

Bill

Ugh Bill. Just read the brake controller article. This whole trailer deal has a huge learning curve for us, but we're getting there with your help. (By the way I picked up a 2 ton hydraulic jack for $13 from Lowes yesterday, just in case we needed it! ) The good news is that, according to RMRay we can get a new brake controller for $200 - not too much scratch - so we'll do that once this problem is fixed.

So its now noon on the day after. Our Sienna is getting diagnosed at the shop. The mechanic has a guess that it is the brake switch, but they haven't actually looked at the problem yet. BUT GET THIS, my husband was coming home from work on Friday to go on this trip and a neighboring driver told him that his brake lights were out on our Nissan with about 70k miles. They were fine last week - he noticed them last weekend. He took it into the shop this morning, since we're home anyway (right), and they told him its the BRAKE SWITCH .

What are the chances of this happening within one day of eachother to both vehicles that have no history of problems? Neither of our vehicles will be fixed until mid to late next week.

Another idea has crept into the minds of those I have discussed this with. Is it possible the TM has a short that caused both it and the Sienna to fail? Guess I should stop guessing until the Sienna mechanic figures out the problem.

Now its 4pm. Toyota just called and said we blew two fuses in the brake system somewhere and that we should get the wiring for the trailer "checked out." Where do we do that? I'll report back what the mechanic says when I get home later.

The 25 amp blade fuse coming off of the main box to the controller was blown and the 10 amp mini fuse for the Sienna lights was blown. Now to figure out why. After the repair shop we took the van to get the TM to bring it home. The CS light went on again on the brake controller after about 15 minutes, but the braking lights on both TM or TV stayed on. The car went in and out of park just fine. I don't know what to do next or who to call to figure it out.

[Bill]

Unfortunately, unless you have more electrical troubleshooting knowledge than you suggest, it sounds like you need to go to an RV shop - a different RV shop than the one that did the installation. Sorry.

Bill

[wbmiller3]

Since you had two different fuses blow, I would first try to check out any places where a single failure could affect both of these fuses. Dual simultaneous or cascading failures are certainly possible, but start with the single ones first. Here are some single failure points I could think of to check.

My controller (Draw Tite, I think) uses the brake light circuit to "know" when to apply the brakes and then sends power to the trailer to apply the brakes based on this. If yours works like mine, both of the fuses you describe as being blown are hooked up to one point in common: the controller. If I were in your shoes I'd pull out my VOM and start looking for a short somewhere in the controller or for a miswired connector between the TV and controller (if it's not hardwired in...if it is, check the wiring).

Another point these circuits have in common is the connector between the TV and trailer. You could check both sides of that out with a VOM and make sure that they are wired appropriately.

A 25 amp fuse being blown equates to a pretty large short. If you examine the wiring and controller you might be able to see some heat damage at the point where it happened. If you didn't smell any smoke when it happened, that might be a clue that it's not the controller itself, but downstream of it, outside the vehicle cab.

You might be able to get hold of someone at the controller manufacturer who can give you more details about exactly what the CS light really means. That might point you in a more focused direction for troubleshooting.

Good luck, I hope you can scope this one out!

SneakyFrog, Above VOM is a Volt Ohm Meter. I like the DVOM which is digital. Sometimes those of us who use this type of equipment talk in garbled language for those who don't. What wbmiller3 says is absolutely correct.