confused -4runner towing

for many yrs we towed a 5th with a f250 but last yr we switched to a
TM2720. still have the f250 which, of course doesn't even know the TM is back there. big increase in mpg which is still awfull.
bought a toyota 4runner 6cyl and am mightly confused with all this talk about weight distributing hitches etc no idea what most of the acronyms mean or what i need. the toyota manual says i need sway bars which i don't see mentioned in these threads. a neighbor had sway bars for his trailer and said they worked fine but seemed a pain to hook up.

opinions?
thanks in advance
jack

[Bill]

The Search tool turned up this threead, which may be helpful.

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=1346

As Leon mentioned, do not confuse a weight-distribution hitch (wdh) with a sway-control device. They are not the same. And yes, your 4-Runner needs a WDH.

Bill

[rickst29]

seems to have MORE confusion, not less.

(1) Jack, you didn't answer my question in the last Thread: is this a "new" 4R, or an older one? That actually DOES matter some.

If it's new, then you want a WDH, and the V6 hitch receiver actually *IS* plenty "beefy" enough to handle WDH torque just fine. And the frame is the same as the V8. And the Tranny is the same. I think that the large difference which Toyota presents in "official" towing capacity is mostly for marketing purposes. I don't know if you noticed this from earlier comments or searches on other Threads: I'm in a totally unique situation to compare the current 4Runner models (V8 and V6) for towing Trailmanors-- I've owned BOTH, towed my TM with BOTH, and driven up and down mountain passes with BOTH. If your 4R is a new one, then my word is the law about this, at least as far as 2619/2720 are concerned.

You ABSOLUTELY GOTTA have a WDH with this vehicle! The geometry, with the hitch receiver pretty far in back of the rear axle, causes WAY to much unloading of the front tires.

A rating of anything less than "700 lbs" isn't good, you want the spring bars to be cinched to much less than full capacity. Here's some suitable brands and models:

EAZ-LIFT without sway control, part # 7509. (includes ADJUSTABLE Ball Mount, you don't want a welded one. 750 lb rating is perfect). You could get a Trunnion-bar model instead, but I like round-bar models-- easy to pop in and pop out for storage, both at home and at camp.

ROBIN, part # 20830. I own the 1000 lb version of this one, it was very cheap and works REALLY nice.

REESE, part # 67509 "heavy duty round bar style".

DRAW-TITE, unfortunately, makes you buy the "hitch shank" part separately from the rest of the kit. Their round-bar kit is part # 3202, and shank # 3210 allows for the tiny amount of drop which you'll probably want to have. #3211 will also work, I think.

Bottom line: Buy the ROBIN if it's readily available at an attractive price, because we'll be "twins" and I can tell you exactly how to set it up. (But again, only if your 4R is new.)

When you attach the hitch head to the shank, on any brand except Reese, the correct number of washers (this determines the angle of the head) is FOUR. (not 3, not 5.) Reese uses thicker "adjusting blocks" for this job, and I don't know exactly how thick they are.
- - - - -

You might choose to have a shop to mount your ball into the head, and to set your "drop" correctly. But this is pretty easy, the only issue being the enormous torque you need in attaching the hitch ball. If you get an 8000 lb ball with a 1-1/4" diameter shank, you'll need to tighten to 450 ft lbs. (IIRC)

So, having done that job myself, I say that the 1" shank diameter, rated 6000 lbs gross trailer weight, is more than enough overkill. (And it is-- really!) Draw-Tite makes a cheap wrench for this job, available at any Wal-Mart or equivalent, which you can use to tighten the nut while a friend holds the ball in place by grabbing the wrench flats (on top, under the ball) with a big pipe wrench. Buy a new ball for the WDH, don't "steal it" from your Toyota-provided weight carrying shank.

rickst29 - thanks so much for the valuable info. i will be acting on it soon as i hope to be doing some traveling.
i have a new 4runner (900miles!).
it's a nice vehicle but i'm used to the old mini van (siholette) which i traded in.
for most things mini vans are my favorite but not for this.
the 4runner is the beefiest smaller vehical to do the job.
jeep liberty just seemed too puny to me (sorry liberty owners).
also we go to fla for the winter and the 4runner has enuf capacity.
we no longer tow a trailer to fla as we have a park model - so long as a hurricane doesn't blow it away.

[rickst29]

Jack, if you chose the 4R merely because of the bigger SIZE, you fell into the right choice by being lucky

Liberty actual, real world Death Rate per Million-Vehicle-Registered-Years: 86
4Runner death rate: 12

The Liberty isn't AWFUL, in fact it was right about average. But among the HUNDREDS of vehicle models for which the IIHS calculated numbers, the 4Runner was second best-- only the Mercedes E-Class Sedan had a lower death rate. Even if that years' data was somewhat of a fluke, their statisticians also said that the 95% confidence interval for the 4Runner was somewhere between 0-39, it was definitely awesome.
- - - - -

HOWEVER, the $$ which insurance companies pay out for INJURIES to drivers and passengers in 4Runners is only a little better than average. Having seen the results of a spectacular accident, I'm willing to take a guess at why. (A man had a medical problem while driving his big, heavy conversion van. He apparently slumped forwards onto the gas pedal, accelerated for several hundred yards, and hit our 4R at a speed estimated "60-70 MPH". DW was stopped, waiting in a line at a stop sign. 3 vehicles were totaled, but she took the most massive hit.)

The headrest in our 2005 wasn't built to snap forwards upon a rear impact--- and neither is our 2007 . IIRC, Toyota is installing upgraded "active head restraints" in several new models, starting with the 2008 Highlander. DW suffered a significant whiplash injury in the crash, even though the headrest was set at proper height (above her ears). This is defective, by MY standards. Her new "commuter" vehicle is a Subaru Tribeca, which we bought (mostly) because our insurance company says it's the SUV with lowest injury payouts by them. 4Runner is a bit safer for injuries than the average vehicle, but with it's other advantages it ought to be a lot better than it is.

(BTW: IIHS published figures for insurance payouts are always at least a couple years out of date, because the competing insurance Cos don't like to "give away" the proprietary information which they use to set their rates. The pdf doesn't even list the Tribeca, because it's too new. That's why I asked Progressive, before I even started shopping, to tell me the top 3 vehicles-- in order.)

The death rate data is becoming very "stale", it's mostly from 2002. But except in cases of a TOTALLY new model, cars/trucks/SUVs hardly ever change a lot from one year to the next. Side airbags help, of course, and I hope that you got 'em.

BTW, after the crash, the PASSENGER compartment had been so well protected the all of the doors still opened. She got out and comforted the dying van owner during his last moments. The police accident investigator was amazed at the 4Rs performance. To me (not her), he said "If she'd been in a normal car she wouldn't be walking away from this, we'd probably be using another body bag".

The V8 was nice, and could tow the TM in 5th (with the Tranny locked up, YOU NEED THAT TO HAPPEN) whenever we were on relatively flat or downhill grades and going 60 MPH or higher. The V6 does a lot better left in 4th, and it actually gets BETTER gas mileage while running that way. Until you're above 8000 ft (and yes, we do that a lot) there's almost no compromise using the V6, except for slightly louder engine noise. Just downshift one notch. And the oil filter is sure a HECK of lot easier to get at, I do my own oil changes.

Jack and rickst29:

I have a new (2007) v6 4runner and a 2720sl with the swing away hitch. It fits perfectly into my garage, but I wonder if I can still install the WDH?

I will do some searching in the site, but if either of y'all know, please comment.

Thanks!

[Bill]

Leon is right. The WDH (on your tow vehicle) has absolutely nothing to do with the swing-away hitch (which is part of the trailer). Once the swing-tongue is set into towing position and locked, it is no different from the regular tongue.

Bill

[rickst29]

The length of the bars needs to be right around 30" -- and in the weight class we're talking about, 600 - 1000 lbs, I think that all the major brands (plus Robin, the cheapo "minor" brand I love) fit correctly.

When hooked up, the snap up bracket needs to be mounted between the swing hitch reinforcement hardware and the propane tanks. And since you want the chain to be vertical, this is ONE particular spot. After you've found it, you tighten down the snap-up brackets on the A-frame arms using the screw-- and leave them there permanently. All the other stuff (arms with chains, the big "head" and the shank to which you've attached the head comes off for storage.

Which *IS* between the two "limiting" assemblies in the TM A-frame. I'm sure that TM designed the swing hitch with this issue in mind.
- - - -

When in camp or at home, I place the spring bars across end of the hitch (at home, I need to swing the hitch to fit in the garage, and I set the bars across both the swing-away and fixed portions. (OT: After raising the TM levels to take nearly all the weight, I lower the Atwood A-frame jack on the swing hitch to take the weight of the swing hitch itself-- the torque from all the weight hanging free might not be good for the pin, crossbars, reinforcements, or even the A-frame itself). Storing them right on the hitch keeps the greasy round end of the bars from staining clothes, etc. And I just put the big head on the floor of the garage, or underneath the front slide-out, if we're gonna be there for a few days (and I don't want that 80 lb. monster and IT'S greasy hitch ball in the way of the loading/unloading).

Maybe there's a tiny security risk in leaving ALL the WDH parts loose and in the open, but the whole thing only cost me $200-- I'll risk it. In case of theft, I've still got Toyota's weight carrying ball mount for emergency travel. (The TM itself gets a GOOD wheel lock, I talked about it a lot in a couple of other threads.)

[rickst29]

I just noticed (from my 2006 Draw-Tite dealer's catalog), that they *DO* now sell complete round bar kits which include the shank. (The shank which they include, works only with these round bar kits).

part # 62556 is the 750 lb version.
part #62557 is the 1000 lb version.
part #54970 is the new shank/bar included in these kits.

If you're gonna go Draw-Tite, I'd ask for one of these. But on Internet, they're $50 - $150 more than the Robin kit (which Camping World sells for $199). I got the Robin for $199 in a local store.

thanks for all the input. i did order the robin hitch and am waiting for it to arrive.
rickst29.. any advise you have on installation is appreciated.
i'm kinda exited and reved up looking fwd to the first tow with the 4runner.
jack