Adequate tow vehicles - rule of thumb?

I'm a prospective TrailManor buyer, with a questionable tow vehicle at the moment. I joined another thread with a question about using a Jeep Liberty as a TV. You were all very kind to contribute your opinions. Today I see that the Liberty has again surfaced in a thread about Toyota Highlander Hybrids.

Most of the comments I have seen from TM owners using Jeep Liberty as a TV (usually towing a 2720) have been positive. At least one-from someone who seems to know what he's talking about-says that it's an accident waiting to happen.

My question is: is there a rule of thumb to indicate what specs a tow vehicle should have in order to safely and adequately tow a trailer of a given size? For example, it was said that the Liberty's wheelbase is too short to tow a 3124 and borderline for a 2720. Okay, how would I know what wheelbase would be better suited for a 3124? I also heard that the Jeep's power is too weak to tow a TM in the Rockies. How much HP would be adequate?

How can I know how to select my next vehicle? Most of us have to balance the tow vehicle trait with whatever else we use that vehicle for. We wouldn't want the biggest, baddest gas guzzling pickup truck for our daily commute to work. But we might need the biggest, baddest gas guzzling pickup truck to pull a fifth wheel trailer. Somewhere between the BBGGPU and the Liberty is a collection of vehicles that are safe and adequate for the TrailManor without being excessively expensive to buy or operate. How can I identify them?

[grill-n-go]

This site seemed to answer a lot of my questions when I first started

http://www.rvtowingtips.com/index.htm

[commodor47]

I had forgotten about that site Mario -thanks for posting the link. Before selecting our Jeep Liberty as a tow vehicle I read that site carefully, several times. The guidelines are very helpful and do reference the Jeep under the section which talks about trailer length. One advantage of the Liberty is the short distance from the rear axle to the tow ball.

The more you read about what can safely tow what the more confusing it seems to get . . . and the more you tend to second guess yourself. Sometimes common sense can make the difference when you have a marginal setup. Certainly driving habits/skill, keeping your attention on the road and the other vehicles around you, driving between 55 and 60 mph (much easier to let other vehicles pass you than to be constantly changing lanes) and anticipating possible adverse situations before hand all make a difference. In my experience most towing problems occur because other drivers don't realize how difficult it is to stop a travel trailer or to quickly change direction. I suspect they are the same drivers that pull out in front of the big rigs.

Having said all that, I think the 2720 is probably the longest TM you could comfortably (and safely) pull with the Liberty.

I agree that many of us are looking for a dual purpose TV . . . camping and everyday use. You might consider trading the Liberty for a newer Tacoma (redesigned -now almost the same size as the Tundra) or a Tundra. The Tundra (or newer Tacoma) would be a good balance between a nice TV and everyday use.

Mario, thanks for that link. Of course, it will take me all fall and winter to go thru all of that information. That site seems to answer questions I hadn't thought to ask yet. Great resource!

Dick, thanks for your recommendations. Thanks, too, for the link to your trip log. It was very enlightening.

[fcatwo]

One source of viable information on the subject of tow vehicles that hasn't been mined to my knowledge is the TV/TM combination used by people on this site. A lot of us include the TV we are using and the TM we are towing along with our signatures at the bottom of our posts. I think a person could gain a lot of knowledge by scanning the signature info on a few threads and sending a personal message or email to anyone owning a TV/TM combination they think might interest them.

You have probably figured out by now that there are few absolutes on the subject and an owner's tolerance for perceived risk as well as the number of miles and hrs they will be running solo as opposed to towing with the vehicle are major decision factors.

Not to throw a wrench in the works or anything but those trailer length tables are based on slabsided full-height trailers and their tendency to act like a sail and sway. Also, the trailer lengths assume a typical full-size trailer weight for those lengths and the moments of force produced thereof. The tables therefore assume tail-wagging-dog scenarios which are probably not at all typical for a Trailmanor IMHO.
I do believe, however, the TM length and weight is important when considered along with the TV wheelbase and "other factors" when it comes to keeping in control when braking and turning, such as towing down a steep hill and around a curve or in certain collision avoidance situations. Also, those "other factors" it seems to me are just as important in this scenario such as the TV rear overhang (can affect those moment forces as much as the wheelbase), the WDH affecting the the relative grip between TV rear wheels and front wheels and therefore the resistance to it being pushed into rotation, and, probably most importantly, the condition and controller setting of the TM brakes.
Unfortunately we have no tables which are particularly applicable IMO, but certainly sticking to the old "rules of thumb" errs well on the conservative side.

-Paul

[fcatwo]

For anyone interested, there is a link to pictures part way down in a thread called "New Trailer For Sequoia" in the Sequoia section over at http://www.tundrasolutions.com of a sway-induced rollover accident involving a Toyota Sequoia and a long trailer. It does happen.

The shame of this whole topic is that I've been considering a TrailManor because I needed a lightweight trailer I can tow with the Jeep Liberty I already have. TM has hard sides-definitely an advantage over the pop-ups I looked at first. Because it folds down for towing it has some trade-offs, too. We won't be likely to stop along the road for a bathroom break or a lunch break if it means setting it up, then breaking it back down to resume the trip. I know it's easy, but it is something you don't have to do with a conventional RV trailer.

If I need a larger tow vehicle for a TrailManor why not use that larger tow vehicle for a conventional camping trailer instead?

Leon, thanks for the suggestion, but I had noticed that I could jump to the section on How Long . . . I'm just that rare person who reads instruction manuals from cover to cover. It drives my wife nuts when we get a new car and I read the whole manual-even if the new car is just a newer model year but otherwise the same as the old car. I'm not sure she knows there are words inside those books ;^) Somewhere on this web site I found an owner's manual a forum member had assembled for a TM2720. I downloaded it and started to read the whole thing just to see what I could expect if we did buy a TM.

[Bill]

Taking Terns -

When thinking about tow vehicles, many of us concentrate on Horsepower and Pulling Power. That is, unfortunately, an error that makes Rules of Thumb almost useless because Rules of Thumb don't state the assumptions behind them. But it makes car and trailer manufacturer really happy because they DON'T WANT to state the assumptions behind their towing and weight ratings. I still think there is a lot of value in the post at
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...41&postcount=5
No, it won't give any rules of thumb, but I hope it will make you think about you expectations and assumptions.

As an aside, I am really pleased with the members of this board. Three years ago, the "What can I pull ...?" questions were ALWAYS about horsepower, and nothing else. We have all learned together about other aspects of trailer-towing, including the things you are reading about now - things like wheelbase, dry vs wet weight, frontal area, the effects of altitude, per cent grade, braking, transmission cooling, and so forth. Much of this wisdom came from Rocky Mtn Ray, who shared hundreds of thoughtful posts with us. These days, most of the members of this board can (and do!) provide answers to towing questions that are much better informed than they were three years ago. Hooray for all of us.

Bill

Originally Posted by TakingTerns

If I need a larger tow vehicle for a TrailManor why not use that larger tow vehicle for a conventional camping trailer instead?

With a Chevy 1500HD, I have a lot of choices as to what I will tow. I choose to tow something I can park in the garage, saving about 100 dollars per month in parking lot fees, and also eliminating the risk of vandalism.

A standard TT only has two advantages over the TM:

1. You can step inside without popping it open. I can see the advantage for some people to stop on the side of the road and use the TM for a meal stop, but we have never had a reason to do that yet.

2. Assuming you can store it at home then it is possible to load it for the next trip without having to pop it open.

Since I can not store anything at home that does not fit inside the garage, then a TT will not work for me at all.

Some of the places I go will not accommodate a standard TT. Not enough overhead clearance.

If you can park a full sized TT at your house and will always go to places that are easy to get to, like private RV parks, then the TM may not have an advantage. That is not my situation at all. I avoid places with hook ups to the greatest extent possible. Not enough privacy. I want to stay in places where it is impossible to hear my neighbor. It is even better if I can not see them at all.

On my first trip out with the TM, another camper came out to admire my TM 2720. He had a full sized TT at about 27 feet. His comment was " wow, you can take that to Highland Lake". I have never been to Highland Lake, but apparently he likes to fish there. So he goes tent camping at Highland Lakes because his trailer can not go there.