New question on Highlander

I see that a while back there was extensive discussion on towing with the Toyota Highlander. The Highlander, just this year, has come out with a hybrid engine. According to the manufacturer the GVWR is 5675#. Anyone with any thoughts about this? Do you think this model could adequately tow a 2720? Has anyone tried?

Wiloran,

To start with, I think we are going to need more information including peak foot-pounds of torque. I got good advice on this board by posting the specs on my engine and transmission from the owners manual.

I don’t know any specifics about the Highlander hybrid, but even with additional information, we may not be able to give you a conclusive response. Here is why I think that.

Hybrids depend on vehicle braking and deceleration to recharge the batteries that in turn boost the power when going uphill and accelerating. If the brakes on the TM accomplish a third or more of your braking power, you will loose that recharge power. Then your batteries may not have the energy that you will need to go up hills after driving it a distance. It will be the hills that make it or break it for you.

I don’t think anyone would recommend devising a way to keep the trailer brakes from coming on when you hit your Highlander brakes. It would increase your braking distance substantially and could cause some real serious safety issues. Isn’t there an old joke where the wife says “that trailer passing us looks just like ours”…and the husband says.. “It IS ours!”

Again, I don’t know anything specific about the Highlander hybrid. It may be fine, but I think you should proceed with due caution.

Can you turn off the battery boost on small hills and save the energy for the big ones?

Jim

[Denny_A]

Best check the towing limit for the hybrid. The non-hybrid Highlander is limited to 3500 lbs. I don't know if that is a structural limit or if it's limited "excessively" due to aerodynamic drag whilst towing a trailer. Mfr's definition of a trailer tends to be "boxy, tall, slab-faced" old beasty. TM's drag is at least 1/3 that of definition above.

Highlander Hybrid has the same V6 as the regular V6 Highlander, and it has a motor for the front axle and a motor for the rear axle(i-version). It will NOT run out of oomph on a long climb. Regeneration at braking improves the overall efficiency - it is in no way critical to operation.

For towing, it's most appealing feature is its shiftless transmission. No gear changes, no xmsn fluid, no xmsn cooler! Computer controlled, infinitely variable xmsn!

Engine supplies torque to the front axle and drives a generator. Generator powers both motors and charges the hybrid battery pack.

I own a Toyota Prius, so am familiar with the system; the highlander uses the same Hybrid Synergy Technology, but uses a much larger engine, of course.

Here's a review:

by Jeff Yip
Copyright © 2005

PHOENIX – OK, after an afternoon driving the hybridized Highlander in urban sprawl and in the mountains, we can vouch for the power part of this equation. Now let’s pray that the EPA numbers scored by this next wave of Toyota hybrids aren’t just vapor. The public get a chance to find out in early June when this bad boy hits showrooms.

A well-executed one-two punch is not just devastatingly effective; it’s a pugilistic work of art. If the Prius I and II were feints and probes, the gasoline-electric Lexus RX 400h and Highlander Hybrid constitute a double-tap against Toyota’s opponents.

Will consumers who want to save at the pumps, but need more than a compact SUV, finally have their cake and eat it too? It might be time to break out the dessert forks.

Toyota reports that the EPA city/highway economy numbers for the 4x2 hybrid Highlander are 33/28, for a combined 30 mpg. Meanwhile, the 4WD-i versions get fuel efficiency ratings of 31/27, or 29 overall. (The benefits of the hybrid’s electric propulsion are greatest in stop-and-go use.)

Unless you’ve had to fill up an SUV tank recently, you may not fully appreciate those EPA estimates. The one rub here is the credibility gap between the EPA ratings for hybrids and real-world fuel consumption. We’ll need to live with a production model to determine whether the numbers are in the bull’s-eye -- or just bull.

What’s real, though, is the “warp drive” factor Synergy hybrid system adds. The big bonus (and grin) will be on freeways when the right foot is firmly applied. Thanks to its continuously variable transmission and power-melding firmware, the traditional press-your-back-into-the-seat drama is replaced by a delightful linear rush.

I am assuming that attributing the quote to its author allows me to post it. If not, let me know and i will take it down - or a Moderator can for me if I'm tardy checking back here.

Denny_A

With more searching I find that the hybrid is also recommended for 3500 lbs towing, although the GVWR is 5675. So it looks like I'm back to considering the 4 Runner. Which isn't a bad thing, I was just getting excited thinking that I might have found something with better gas mileage. Oh well, I don't need to buy for another year. Who knows what they'll come out with next year!

I am wondering if there has been any more discussion now that a year has gone by on using the Highlander Hybrid as a TV?

We use a Jeep Liberty to tow our 2720 and are happy with the performance. I would love to consider a Hybrid SUV as an alternative.

I took delivery of a 2720SL on Saturday and on Sunday was towing it with my Jeep Liberty 3.7 gas engine/tow package. I have the eaz WDH (1000 pound bars on second link of the chains and hitch same height hooked up as it was without being hooked up -- everything is level).
The power of the Jeep seems fine. O/D (mostly) off. 2000 rpm a lot and pops up to as high as 4000 rpm on some grades. Towed on freeways, long grades, and twisty mountain roads. Tranny light hasn't come on yet (keeping my fingers crossed). Handling is okay, but there is some side to side action occasionally which I figure is due to the short (104 inch) wheelbase. But all in all, I am pleasantly surprised at how decent the Liberty tows the 2720SL. I'm getting about 13 - 14 mpg - 15 mpg so far.

[Denny_A]

Originally Posted by Paul Moulton

I am wondering if there has been any more discussion now that a year has gone by on using the Highlander Hybrid as a TV?

We use a Jeep Liberty to tow our 2720 and are happy with the performance. I would love to consider a Hybrid SUV as an alternative.

......discussion post re towing a 4000# trailer with a Highlander Hybrid. Find it here:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0daea6

HTH

Denny_A

...and here's another discussion with the HiHy towing a 2000lb boat:
http://www.hybridcars.com/discussion...=737&replies=7
So only 13.3 mpg towing a full height trailer and 21-22mpg towing a 2000lb boat. My guess towing a TM would be somewhere around 18-20 mpg.

-Paul

We tow a 2720SD with our 2005 Toyota Highlander - not the hybrid - and so far it has been great! You can't even tell the TM is back there. However, we've already decided that when we replace it, we'll go with the
4Runner...the gas mileage won't be as good...but we'd like to have enough power to hit the mountains at some point.

[Denny_A]

Originally Posted by pbuck1

...and here's another discussion with the HiHy towing a 2000lb boat:
http://www.hybridcars.com/discussion...=737&replies=7
So only 13.3 mpg towing a full height trailer and 21-22mpg towing a 2000lb boat. My guess towing a TM would be somewhere around 18-20 mpg.

-Paul

I noted a comment from the above link which I'd like to expand on. Namely the "high low-end torque" comment regarding the Toyota Hybrids.

Hybrid Synergy Drive is a parallel, vs. series engine-motor drive system. Meaning either the motor or engine can deliver the propulsion without assistance of the other. When adding propulsion together each operates in its most efficient mode (rpm). The motor(s) deliver max torque at zero rpm and continue to do so up to an rpm equivalent to about 21-25 mph, then falls off gradually at increasing rpm. The engine's peak torque occurs just as the motor's torque is getting sucky (a tech term).

The HiHY should be more powerful off the line from adead stop than its sibling conventiional Highlanders. My '06 Prius develops 295 lb-ft torque, via the motor, at 0 rpm and maintains that out put up to 21 mph. Relatively speaking, the HiHy AWD should produce a lot more torque from a stop. I've shocked a few guest drivers of my Prius by having them "floor it" off the line.

If the HiHY's GCWR is great enough to allow an acceptable payload, it should be a good tow vehicle. Toyota uses the same logic (IMHO) as Honda, in that their 3500 lb tow limit for trailers is based on a tall, slab-faced trailer. I.e., high aerodynamic drag. The TM's drag is less than 1/3 that of a conventional trailer. The 4500 lb tow limit for a boat (based on aerodynamics) is the clue that the TM's towability is 'probably' not a problem! NB: IMHO!

Denny_A