Can I do it without batteries?

Kmikesell · 02-10-2022, 10:24 AM

Howdy collective mind hive!

I have a power question. I put my TM in storage for the winter, (Can't fit in my garage right now but that's another story) and removed my 2 x Trojan 105's to keep them from freezing.

Now wife and I have planned a trip to Lava Hot Springs in Idaho for the Presidents Day weekend. We will have an 30 amp electrical hook up so we can use our portable heater, the heat pump and the TM's furnace as needed (Temp predictions for that weekend are - Highs in the mid 30's. Lows in the upper 'teens). It shouldn't be an issue as we've taken the TM out and boon-docked in similar temps.

The big question is: Do I have to put the massively heavy, incredibly awkward, PITA batteries back in their stuff cubby to allow me to use the 30 amps of AC at the campground? Or can I leave that joy along till Spring?

Inquiring mind need to know.

**ShrimpBurrito** · 02-10-2022, 11:28 AM

You definitely need a battery just to pull your TM out of your driveway, as it powers the break-away brakes on the TM in the event of a separation. Major safety issue, and also the law.

Additionally, assuming you have one of the older-style converters, there is no on-board DC filtering, and those circuits that are filtered are filtered through the battery. That wouldn't make any difference for most of the electronics in the TM, though overhead LED lights would probably have a slight flicker. I'm not sure how the furnace might behave.

To make it easier to install the batteries in my 2720SL, while standing outside at the rear of the TM, lift the bed an inch or two off the bed support arms, and slide the bed inside. Then the support arms will swing freely, and you can swing them out of the way to open the battery door. And with the bed now inside, you can stand upright, making it FAR easier to maneuver those batteries, and at the same time, not risk head injury or scraping your back against those nasty bolts on the support arms. Don't ask me how I know about this.

Dave

**ShrimpBurrito** · 02-10-2022, 11:30 AM

Also, lithium iron phosphate batteries are less than half the weight of flooded lead acid, and reportedly also provide nearly double the useable power. I'm in the process of switching over myself, but they are super spendy, and I only justified it by doing a solar upgrade, where they can be part of a solar tax credit.

Dave

Kmikesell · 02-10-2022, 12:11 PM

Thanks for the input. I will give the bed/support thing a try! As for the new batteries, I just dropped nearly $500, not sure I could convince the DW that a another 500 would be worth it.

You can get a solar tax credit for RV solar?

**Bill** · 02-10-2022, 12:18 PM

Dave is right about the breakaway brakes - don't leave home without them. But if you really don't want to manhandle those big Trojans, I think there is an option. Simply get yourself a smaller battery. For example, you can get a sealed (AGM) Lead-Acid Battery - 12V, 22 Amp-hours, Model# UB12220, for about $50 at Walmart. Remember that if the thing is discharged when you install it, the TM battery charger will immediately set out to charge it, possibly supplying more charge current than it likes. So make sure it is fully charged before you install it, and then don't discharge it before you have your campground hookup.At that point, the TM charger will simply maintain it,

If you buy a breakaway kit from an RV place, truck place, or even Walmart, it will include a small battery of 5-8 amp-hours. This battery is not intended to power any loads other than the brakes, but it will handle them in an emergency. I would suggest getting something a bit larger than that just so there is no problem with charge rate. In other words, don't buy a teeny battery.

Bill

Kmikesell · 02-10-2022, 01:54 PM

I really do appreciate your input/advice but breakaway trailers aint one of them. I think I may have an old marine 12v laying around somewhere, I could slap that in. I will have to see if I do, and throw a trickle charger on it. Great idea!

While I agree breakaway switches are an important added safety measure, the incidences of their use is so minuscule as to almost be nill. (Incidents of trailer miles driven vs full trailer breakaways). It's almost a belt and suspenders issue.

To be deployed all these things need to happen, and in TM land with the arguably ultralight trailers that TM's are, a breakaway is extremely unlikely.

* Hitch pin either not used/broken, or falls out.
* Tongue latch not applied properly, not applied at all, broken or opens "all by it's self (see not applied properly).
* BOTH safety chains/cables not applied, falls off or breaks.
* And if you are using an anti-sway of WDH that's one more connection that needs to be misapplied, applied incorrectly or broken.

I actually searched the inter-web looking for examples of a breakaway system being used, and couldn't find it.

One last thing, as I tell everyone I talk to, safety signs, regulations and limits are there for your protection. Violate them at your own discretion. AFWWIW, I use my breakaway switch connection EVERY TIME I TOW. [OK maybe not THIS trip LOL]

**Bill** · 02-10-2022, 02:42 PM

Well, I have personally seen the aftermath of a camper trailer that broke away, and went charging into the grassy median strip of the Interstate I was on. Fortunately there was a hefty barrier in the median, and the trailer merely slid along it until it stopped. It was messy, but no more than that. Had there been no median barrier, it could have been a lot more than messy.

You searched the Internet and couldn't find anything? You might want to check out this video - the first half is poor sway control, but the second half is breakaways.
https://www.rvtravel.com/video-trail...ares-revealed/

Or how about this one?
https://www.motor1.com/news/478868/t...uck-towing-it/

By the way, you missed one of your stars of glory. How about
* Hitch ball nut loosens, hitch ball detaches from the hitch platform.

I'm not sure why you asked your question, but I'm glad I won't be on the road between Utah and Idaho on that weekend.

Bill

**ShrimpBurrito** · 02-10-2022, 02:57 PM

My understanding of whether the solar tax credit applies to RVs has to do whether the RV has a bed, bath, and kitchen, and how many days you spend occupying it. The IRS has some tests to determine whether the solar setup qualifies, but generally, yes, I think there are some instances where an RV solar setup meets their criteria.

As to towing without a battery for the breakaway brakes: maybe the incidence of them being deployed is absolutely miniscule, maybe it's not, I have no idea. But the safety mechanism was installed there for a reason, and laws governing their use were also created for a reason, and if for whatever reason you find your TM needs to deploy it, and there is no battery there, you can be sure the law will frown upon that, especially if the trailer hurts or kills someone.

People have gone to jail because their trailer has detached and hurt people. A 10-second google search will turn up numerous examples of that. I'm not a lawyer, but that likely falls on the determination of negligence. Failing to use a factory-installed safety mechanism (and thereby liking violating a law) would very likely fall under that category.

Dave

Kmikesell · 02-10-2022, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

Well, I have personally seen the aftermath of a camper trailer that broke away, and went charging into the grassy median strip of the Interstate I was on. Fortunately there was a hefty barrier in the median, and the trailer merely slid along it until it stopped. It was messy, but no more than that. Had there been no median barrier, it could have been a lot more than messy.

You searched the Internet and couldn't find anything? You might want to check out this video - the first half is poor sway control, but the second half is breakaways.
https://www.rvtravel.com/video-trail...ares-revealed/

Or how about this one?
https://www.motor1.com/news/478868/t...uck-towing-it/

By the way, you missed one of your stars of glory. How about
* Hitch ball nut loosens, hitch ball detaches from the hitch platform.

I'm not sure why you asked your question, but I'm glad I won't be on the road between Utah and Idaho on that weekend.

Bill

Bill, you are TOTALLY right, I missed one.

I respect your input and advice VERY much.. And YES i did watch that first video, and no it doesn't prove your point. The disconnect was CAUSED on purpose for demonstration purposes. Second video was a RENTAL. So either the driver was a

and or the person at the rental place screwed up. And FWIW, you should be way more concerned about any other driver around you than me, I have NEVER caused an accident in my 44 years of driving.

Lastly my "asking" was about using shore power while camping, not battery power while towing. But again, your points are well taken, and the added safety measure of using the breakaway system is a good one. My position is that it is a belt and suspenders idea.

And once more for the record. I am not trolling you nor purposely antagonising you.

(Intonation, and meanings are often lost in conversations like these)

All the best my friend!

Kmikesell · 02-10-2022, 03:34 PM

FYI:
Utah Trailer Towing Laws:

Every towed vehicle shall be coupled by means of a safety chain, cable, or equivalent device, in addition to the regular trailer hitch or coupling. The safety chain or cable shall be securely connected with the chassis of the towing vehicle, the towed vehicle, and the drawbar. The safety chain or cable shall be of sufficient material and strength to prevent the 2 vehicles from becoming separated and shall have no more slack than is necessary for proper turning. The safety chain or cable shall be attached to the trailer drawbar so as to prevent it from dropping to the ground, and to assure the towed vehicle follows in the course of the towing vehicle in case the vehicles become separated. The requirement for chains or a cable does not apply to a semitrailer having a connecting device composed of a 5th-wheel and kingpin assembly, nor to a pole trailer.

Whenever the load upon any vehicle extends to the rear 4 feet or more beyond the bed or body of the vehicle there shall be displayed at the extreme rear end of the load, between 1/2 hour after sunset and 1/2 hour before sunrise, 2 red lamps and 2 red reflectors located so as to indicate maximum width and maximum overhang. At all other times, there shall be displayed red flags, not less than 12 inches square, marking the extremities of the load.

Vehicles drawing trailers are prohibited from operating in the left-most general purpose lane on highways with more than 3 lanes travelling the same direction.

Additionally:

The following is extra safety equipment that some states require:

Breakaway brakes: Like safety chains, these prevent accidents when your hitch fails. These are power brakes that apply to the trailer upon separation from the tow vehicle.

Flares: Keep these at hand to clear off a section of the road after an accident.

Tie-downs: If you are loading anything on a trailer that could possibly fall off, you'll need tie-downs to secure it at multiple angles.

And just in case you were wondering:

Idaho Trailer Hitch and Signal Laws

Hitch must be secured to frame; no safety chain required.