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Old 01-20-2012, 10:11 PM   #21
Barb&Tim
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Hmmm, well;

It may not be a recommended list but it surely does proclaim that many vehicles with a 3200lb tow rating are plenty sufficient to pull a 30ft trailmanor.

http://www.trailmanor.com/WebDocs/Ca...-vehicles.html

Tim
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:20 AM   #22
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and then the disclaimer:

Tow ratings for vehicles should be described as “general guidelines”. Actual towing limits depend on towing speed, highway grades, elevation, desired acceleration, miles towed per year, tow vehicle loading, frontal area of trailer, sway resistance of trailer, etc.
TrailManor provides uniquely easy towing per pound due to the very low wind drag and the very stable ride resulting from axle placement.
Light duty towing of a well-balanced trailer a few hundred pounds above the rating is much safer than towing a lighter, poorly balanced unit with a tendency to sway. Also, towing an upright trailer with large frontal area at highway speeds can damage a transmission even if the trailer weight is below the tow rating.
Adding options, batteries, gear, fluids can increase loaded weights as much as 1000 pounds above the base weight of a specific trailer. You should add 500- 1000 pounds to the base weights to estimate the actual towed weight.
Based on feedback from our owners, we provide the following model guidance:
MODERATE TOWING CONDITIONS
Mostly low altitudes, only occasional steep grades, part time service, normal highway speeds - Models 2619 through 3023 need at least 3500 pound tow rated vehicles and Models 3124 through 3326 need 4000 pound ratings.
SEVERE TOWING CONDITIONS
High mountain towing, full time service - all models will perform better with at least 4000 pound rated tow vehicles.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:22 PM   #23
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I have only pulled my 2009.5 2720 with tow vehicles rated at 3500 and never had a problem, but they have been with longer wheel based vehicles like my Odyssey. I would not recommend pulling an Elkmont with a Rav 4.
If one looks closely at the info in the recent trailer life tow rating publication, i found it interesting what vehicles were rated at 3500, 4500, and 5000 lbs.
Some of them had the same or similar engine and other equipment seemed like only difference was weight and wheelbase.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:24 PM   #24
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Yes, i suppose that might be considered a disclaimer but since it was posted as "A few more notes about tow ratings:", it makes it appear that the disclaimer is just secondary information that is not very important.


What I forgot to mention is that there is a picture on the web page of a bunch of vehicles (Rav4 being 1) with the statement "What do all of these vehicles have in common"...... They can all tow a 30'TM"

This being displayed in the most prominent position to increase it's importance.


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Old 01-21-2012, 12:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb&Tim View Post
Yes, i suppose that might be considered a disclaimer but since it was posted as "A few more notes about tow ratings:", it makes it appear that the disclaimer is just secondary information that is not very important.


What I forgot to mention is that there is a picture on the web page of a bunch of vehicles (Rav4 being 1) with the statement "What do all of these vehicles have in common"...... They can all tow a 30'TM"

This being displayed in the most prominent position to increase it's importance.


Tim
Which is good advertising.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:45 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Once again, there is no such thing as a recommended tow vehicle list, from TM or anyone else.

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=12349

Bill
I don't know but when you show/list a Rav4 and make the statement;

"They can all tow a 30-foot TrailManor. Easily."

I would think/interpret that as a recommendation!

Koz
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:26 PM   #27
Bill
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Well, the discussion is getting out of hand - again - but the "recommendation" has to be taken with a grain of salt like all advertising. It doesn't say anything about the weight of the TM, so you have to assume they are talking about the dry weight, not the weight with factory options or any of the stuff you put in the trailer. And it doesn't say anything about the amount of stuff/weight you put in your tow vehicle, whose manufacturer's ratings are always for an empty tow vehicle with no passengers except a driver. And most important (to me), it doesn't say anything about WHERE YOU WILL TOW, a point which continues to get lost somehow. I hope it is clear to everyone that towing on the flatlands of Indiana at 600 feet above sea level is different from towing up I-70 on either approach to the Eisenhower Tunnel, where you will be towing at 11,000 feet, over miles of up- and down-grades exceeding 7%. I can tell you that my Explorer, with a 7000 pound tow rating, was rather unhappy with that situation. Should I blame TM for this? And in this situation, a vehicle rated 3500 pounds would scare me to death.

So it is up to you, the camper and customer, to do a little thinking, and not just blindly buy-and-drive. And that is what this forum tries to help everyone do.

Having said all that, I'm the first to say that I am not real fond of the way TM handles this issue. But they do a better job of it than the other trailer manufacturers, particularly the makers of upright trailers in the 8,000 pound class. Everything that I have said here - and the things you should think about - is also stated on the Trailmanor web site, right below the link you mention.

Given that there is no "standard" weight for a TM, no requirment on how you load it, no agreement (or even a definition!) of the tow rating of any given tow vehicle, and no specification of where you will tow, how would you suggest that TM could improve their site?

By the way, we will all have better (though not perfect) answers to the tow rating question when, starting with the 2013 models, the tow vehicle manufacturers begin to test their vehicles against a set of defined, common standards laid out in a national standard called SAE J2807. Until now, the tow vehicle manufacturers could claim any number they wanted, and of course no manufacturer would dare list anything less than his competition. Toyota has put out a really good article on the whole issue at
http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/bl...ing-standards/. It is worth looking at.

Bill
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:40 PM   #28
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Bill, Not sure why you think this discussion is out of hand. I thought that the discussion was civil and pleasant.

Tim
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:35 AM   #29
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Tim -

I didn't mean "out of hand" in terms of uncivil or unpleasant, but simply wildly repetitive. The link provided in post #20 of this thread says all the same stuff, and said it only two months ago. And it was covered a month before that in http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=12161 (though that discussion was buried in another topic).

The goal is simply to prevent new owners from reading about a "recommended tow vehicle list", following a link, and blindly accepting what they find there. Instead, they need to think about what they are reading, compare it to their needs, and evaluate. You may remember that not long ago, a new member came on and joyously announced that he just bought a 3124 and planned to load it with six people and all their stuff, travel through the mountains in southern California, and pull it with some tiny car - a small Saturn, I think. The membership immediately told him it wasn't going to work, and he hasn't been back since. His Saturn was on the "recommended" list, but he read the list blindly and didn't think. I bet he wasn't very happy with TM, or with us.

As HarveyRV once posted
Quote:
I've got these neat new spark plugs that will give you 10% better gas mileage.....and an air filter that will give you 20% better mileage...a fuel additive that will give you another 10%......they can all prove this stuff too. Heck, if you buy enough of these things, you can have a vehicle that will theoretically produce gas as you drive....
We've also talked about carburetors that give 300 mpg. In each case, the message is the same. "Trust everyone in the game - but always cut the cards."

Bill
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Old 01-22-2012, 10:25 AM   #30
Barb&Tim
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As for wildly repetitive, sorry, had not noticed that.

Bill, people are still going to find that info on trailmanor whether we post it on this board or not. I feel that it would be better to post the link and explain (and discuss) why some of the information there should not be taken seriously.

Maybe you should consider posting a stickie of things we should not be talking about on the board.

Tim
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