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Old 03-08-2011, 10:46 AM   #1
T and C
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Default KN and other filters

Folks,

I have read many adds for KN filters that claim that they increase horsepower, torque, and fuel mileage. Other folks make similar claims for other similar products.

I know that major modifications by Banks will deliver on their claims. But I have never actually seen what KN filters can do.

Do any of you have experience withs these products? Please share your experience.

Tom
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:28 AM   #2
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Arrow K&N Filters

I have a K&N air filter on my Trooper and the MINI. The main reason I installed them is because finding replacement paper filters for these vehicles in my area is next to impossible.

I have not noticed any substantial increase in performance other than what is realized by changing out a dirty filter for a clean one. However, I did not do any dino testing to confirm or deny the mfg claims.

The biggest advantage is that I am not throwing paper filters into the dump and I don't have to run all over town looking for a filter or an oil change place that has the right filter.

I may install a K&N on the F250 since I have the cleaning kit in hand. It takes about 4 paper filter changes to find the break even point for the installation of a K&N and the purchase of a cleaning kit.

I can not comment on the installation of a K&N Fresh Air Filter Kit.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:01 PM   #3
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Take a look at this post

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...0&postcount=80

(#80 in the thread), and click the link for KN Filters. If I understand what I am seeing, my reaction is "Huh? Why should I do this?" The horsepower and torque gains are very small. And at reasonable RPMs, where you don't mind running your engine for hours at a time, they are even smaller.

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Old 03-08-2011, 03:40 PM   #4
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You will find many people that will claim that the K&N filters have given them all kinds of benefits. All I have to say is, if someone goes out and spends that kind of $ to increase their HP and MPG, they are going to feel pretty stupid if it doesn't work. They are pretty invested in having a positive outcome, so they have one. I am not saying that they are being untruthful, I am merely saying that "they are pretty invested in having a positive outcome".

It is nearly impossible to evaluate MPG and HP when driving a vehicle. This is especially true when you are talking about ranges of 10%. There are a hundred different things that could account for a 10% increase or decrease in MPG on any given day or over the same piece of ground. As far as "Feeling" a 10% increase in HP......... fiction....... 10% is imperceptible without the proper equipment.

In many cases the mere difference in sound that the K&N system emits, gives the driver a "sense" of power.
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:08 PM   #5
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The other thing to remember, of course, is that if a simple change of filter or canister would have any significant change in power, torque, or gas mileage, the auto companies would be all over it, and would make those changes right on the production line.

The government's gas mileage requirement on new car manufacturers is really tough to meet. If putting in a different air filter would boost mileage by 10%, and add maybe $1 to the retail price of the car, do you think Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, et al, would ignore that? Not hardly!

And given that the first thing any auto magazine's new-car reviewer does is talk about INCREASED HORSEPOWER OVER LAST YEAR'S ENGINE!, do you think the auto companies would ignore a nearly free change that would bring in bigger numbers? Again, not hardly!

No matter what you think of the automakers, they aren't stupid. The aftermarket engine-accessory companies want you to forget that.

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Old 03-08-2011, 05:56 PM   #6
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I have to agree with the above. I have really noticed what harveyrv is talking about. DW's Cherokee on the interstate, flat, in Fl is hard pressed to get 19 mpg. Once we leave get a fill up outside Fl MPG goes to 20. This is running 67 mph, at 70 it drops at 65 it drops. This is also running regular with the 10 to 15% ethanol which only helps the farmers IMO. So what is the difference when we leave Fl and get that first out of state fill up? The K & N will help the land fill, but here in Fl when I've run them in the past I didn't see any change in performance.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
The other thing to remember, of course, is that if a simple change of filter or canister would have any significant change in power, torque, or gas mileage, the auto companies would be all over it, and would make those changes right on the production line.

The government's gas mileage requirement is really tough to meet. If putting in a different air filter would boost mileage by 10%, and add maybe $1 to the retail price of the car, do you think Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, et al, would ignore that? Not hardly!

And given that the first thing any auto magazine's new-car reviewer does is talk about INCREASED HORSEPOWER OVER LAST YEAR'S ENGINE!, do you think the auto companies would ignore a nearly free change that would bring in bigger numbers? Again, not hardly!

No matter what you think of the automakers, they aren't stupid. The aftermarket engine-accessory companies want you to forget that.

Bill
My sentiments exactly. I graduated General Motors Institute and worked for GM most of my working life. I can assure you that if there were any value to this system without effecting the longevity of any other components, the auto manufacturers would use it........ as Bill said, these people are not stupid. There is a darn good reason that it is not being used. I can also assure you that it has been extensively researched.

I will go a step farther and add 2 comments to Bill's. If the K&N system had any value and was so well protected with patents that the manufacturers could not use that technology, one of the manufacturers would simply buy the company.

My other comment.....if you own a car that is under factory warranty, I would not suggest rolling into the dealership for warranty work if you have that system installed on your vehicle. Even if you are not in for engine work, there will be a footnote in your vehicle's record that it has an aftermarket intake system on it. If you ever have engine problems from then on (that could possibly be blamed on that system), you will be screwed.....even if you remove the system and reinstall the original.
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Take a look at this post

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...0&postcount=80

(#80 in the thread), and click the link for KN Filters. If I understand what I am seeing, my reaction is "Huh? Why should I do this?" The horsepower and torque gains are very small. And at reasonable RPMs, where you don't mind running your engine for hours at a time, they are even smaller.

Bill
A 5% boost would be a good thing, but probably not a noticeable thing without looking attentively at detailed measurements. Less clear, of course, is the relationship between more power and fuel economy and I'm not sure I'd spend money on this.

But the good news is that they have power curve graphs based on real data, for which I am appreciative.
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:41 AM   #9
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Default Ethanol!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubjaysnest View Post
I have to agree with the above. I have really noticed what harveyrv is talking about. DW's Cherokee on the interstate, flat, in Fl is hard pressed to get 19 mpg. Once we leave get a fill up outside Fl MPG goes to 20. This is running 67 mph, at 70 it drops at 65 it drops. This is also running regular with the 10 to 15% ethanol which only helps the farmers IMO. So what is the difference when we leave Fl and get that first out of state fill up? The K & N will help the land fill, but here in Fl when I've run them in the past I didn't see any change in performance.
[rant /on]This is a pet pieve with me: Ethanol is a bad bargain as a motor fuel. A gallon of ethanol has only 2/3 of the btu's that a gallon of gas has. In other words, there's less energy in it to produce miles for you (by comparison, Diesel has 14% more than gas). So every dollar you spend on gallons of 10% Ethanol gas is for a product that's really only worth $.93, in spite of the outrageous federal subsidies. It takes almost as much energy to make the Ethanol as it yields, so the whole ethanol thing is just a boondoggle that raises food and fuel costs for everybody while it burns food that could otherwise be exported to reduce our trade imbalance. [rant /off]
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:44 AM   #10
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Continuing on with this thought, I used to get 'better' performance with my car if I bought major brands of gasoline like Standard, Conoco or Phillips 66 than I did if I had to buy some independant brand. It seemed my car would hardly run. Then in 1969 I became an accountant with a Skelly oil jobber and after 5 years behind a desk I discovered I could make more money driving the tanker. After my first trip to the pipeline and seeing that the fuels came from the same bulk tanks my car suddenly began to run just fine on any brand of gasoline. Oh majors put addatives into their premium grades but usually nothing extra in their regular. Before our loading terminals got injectors to automatically put addatives in while loading, we had to manually add about a quart to 1,000 gallons of premium. (Must have been very concentrated indeed.)

While in the Air Force I had seen the purple 140 octane used in our ground generators. Never saw anything like that at the loading terminals.

DW's relatives used to come from California and complained how bad their car ran on our cheap Missouri gas. They drove Fords and Chevys and couldn't wait to get back to the high priced good old CA gas. It was a shock to many when the mandatory octane stickers posted on gas pumps read 87 octane. Of course the oil companies tried to tell everyone that 'our gas is still over 100 octane, we are just required that it never drop below 87.' Yeah, sure. Did I mention that I am from Missouri and you have to "Show Me."

After 9 years of dragging around a 9,000 gallon tanker I went back to driving the desk.
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