Basic battery question

[DanSTL]

Just bought a 2009 2720 and it only has one barely working group 31 deep cycle battery and an empty spot where battery #2 goes .

Problem-. Nothing except for electric tongue jack works on battery power, no lights or fans. Electric 30amp works fine.

Next? Not sure what these wires are for but looks like I need a 2nd battery and/or need to redo all connections to get lights and fans to work on battery?

Any YouTube video that would guide a newbie on what to do next?


Thanks

[Kidkraz]

Dan, did you get an owners manual with the camper? It should be light blue binder. If not you can find a copy in the tech library. This link has a copy of the electrical schematic.


https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...ad.php?t=20026

[DanSTL]

Thanks . Will take a look and see if the schematic will help me. Here are a few more pics . First RV

[Bill]

Referring to the first pic in your original post. At the bottom of the pic, I see two wires coming from the battery post - a heavy black one and a red one. The heavy black one almost certainly runs to the second battery box, where it would be connected to the positive post of a second battery if one were installed. At this point it should be connected to nothing, and insulated from unintended contact with anything else.

The red one goes to a black plastic fuse holder. It is barely visible in the photo, outside the box and hidden under the green wire. Although it is a little hard to see in the photo, the other end of this fuse holder probably has a small black wire coming out of it. This wire carries power into the TM. If you open up the fuse holder (push and turn), you may find that it contains a 30-amp glass tubular fuse, that is either blown, corroded, or entirely missing. As a short-term fix, you can replace this fuse - any hardware store - and it will give you power back into your TM. Long term, you should replace the entire fuse holder with an automotive blade-style fuse holder. See

https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...&pictureid=760

I can't spot where the power to the jack peels off, but it is somewhere in the rat's nest. But since the jack works, the fuse I mentioned may be good, and the problem lies farther down in the rat's nest.

If we need to pursue this further, you will have to pull the wires out of the boxes so we can see where they go, and what is connected to what. If you find another fuse holder in there, be sure to let us know.

This should restore power to your TM. If it does, we can explore the rat's nest of wires in the empty box. The connections are simple, and aside from the long messy wires, easy to understand and easy to connect. In the meantime, make sure that none of the bare wire ends in that empty box are contacting any other wires.

I doubt that the schematic will be of much help, but it can't hurt.

Bill

[DanSTL]

Thanks, headed to the store to buy a a 30-amp glass tubular fuse which runs along wire I marked in purple and into the TM. I removed battery and exposed all, then circled wires by color to show where they run (green one in precious pics was a bungee).

I’m also replacing a group 31 deep cycle battery too as PO had no distilled water and noticed it was swollen when I was charging last night. No idea what the frayed brown wires are for but they are exposed so will tape those up (they run under TM). There is a 2nd fuse, a flat 20amp fuse going to the jack, only other one besides the tubular one. Really appreciate the help, and will keep researching posts as much as possible before asking questions.

[Shane826]

If you didn’t already buy the fuse do yourself a favor and get an ATC style holder & fuse.

[Bill]

OK, you have two fuses. In your next-to-last pic, you have a purple circle around a black fuseholder labeled Atwood. The holder is open, and has a glass fuse showing. This is not the standard TM-installed holder, so it might serve the electric jack. Right next to it, there is an automotive ATC blade fuse holder (red wires) that Shane and I have mentioned. This isn't standard for TM, either, but is a retrofit commonly advised on this forum. My guess is that one of these holders has a good fuse, and one has a blown fuse. What are you finding?

Bill

[rickst29]

Before I begin, let me advise of an insulation color change for "12v" electric wires between your 2009 TM (older USA standard colors) and your somewhat newer electric tongue jack (newer international standard colors):

In TM "12 Volt DC" wiring, the +12V wires are BLACK, the negative return wires are generally WHITE. In newer equipment, and especially in devices from China, the +12V wires are RED and the negative return wires are BLACK.

In all cases, +12V wires should be fused, and grounding wires should never be fused.
- - -
Your Electric tongue jack BLACK wire is bolted directly to the the "-" post of the battery. That post also connects a slightly larger WHITE wire (AWG-8) marked "Neg". The other end of that wire is bolted into the TM frame. Even though the conflicting colors look weird, this is correct. If the bolt connection into the frame is good and tight, then the grounding side of "12v" to the TM lights and other loads is good.
- - -
Your electric tongue jack RED is bolted directly to the "+" post of the battery. If the tongue jack does not contain a replaceable fuse, then a fuse should be added along this wire. I SWAG the correct size to be 30A or less, because the insulated wire (and its matching black "negative return" wire) seem to be no larger than 10-AWG.
- - -
Your most likely current issue (the +12V wire path to/from the TM "load center" 12v circuit board) might occur in 3 places:

1. the funky inside side-mounted battery fuse (it's probably probably a big one).
2. the long wire from that fuse back to the TM loasd center fuse board.
3. the smaller ATC fuse supporting that fuse board connection (within the load center).

I don't like that fuse mount, located partway down a narrow side of your fuse box. You can't readily see if the fuse (or breaker) has blown until after you have disconnected the top mount wires and removed the battery. The current wire size from the battery mount is very large, and the fuse must be limited to the smaller wire coming out. (It's probably way to big).

The standard "+12v" wire between the front-mounted batteries and the WFCO circuit board connector is only 10-AWG, and the supporting fuses must not be larger than "30A". If you want to support more than "30A" between the batteries and the rest of the TM (including the power converter main board), then you must upgrade that entire wire to AWG-8 or larger, depending on maximum load which want to allow.

The fuses (WFCO 12v board, size "standard ATC" maybe upgraded to 40A for the case of 8-AWG wire. At the battery, under the top cover, I recommend use of a "maxi" ATC fuse instead of the smaller-legged "standard" types. Fuse holders for the "standard" ones are generally provided with 10-AWG maximum pigtail size anyway, which is not adequate for the larger fuses people sometimes install in error.) Here's a two-pack, you'll need to buy the 40A "maxi" fuses separately (Buy more than one, to have spares.) https://www.amazon.com/VANSIHO-Water...dp/B0B6R8J932/

If you choose to undertake the wire upgrade, I recommend that you change from TM's 'BLACK' insulation color, and buy RD wire instead.

[DanSTL]

I replaced the 30 amp glass tubular fuse just in case even though it looked good, but the flat fuse (20amp) was good so didn’t replace. No change to the situation with electric in the TM which still doesn’t work. Could the brown frayed wires be part of the issue?

[DanSTL]

Lots of detail there, so are you seeing a third fuse , which I believe you referred to as the funky inside side-mounted battery fuse (it's probably probably a big one)?
.