WDH with Swing-away Tongue

[Bill]

My standard Reese springbars are about 32 inches long in the longest dimension. This makes them a shade over 30 inches from the middle of the U-bolt at the chain, to the far end of the head at the knuckle. The chains hang straight. I agree that 28-inch bars might be a problem.

The part number stamped into the springbar head (the part designated A in Dave's pic here) is 22210H. The bars themselves (part B) are not marked. This part number is apparently no longer made. One source says that the replacement part number is RP66009, but it looks to me more like RP23227. Reese part numbers have always been strange. At any rate, these are trunnion springbars with the little oopsy-doodle curve in the end for dual-cam sway control.

Bill

[Barb&Tim]

Originally Posted by scrubjaysnest

Tim
How were you able to get the chains in the near vertical position the manual calls for between the spring bar and bracket? Are your spring bars longer then 30 inches? I would think your '10 would be identical to my '11 in the swing tongue area.

Ken

Ken, time permitting, i will try to get out tomorrow and measure my springbars & take some pictures of my setup.

Tim

Edit: Just saw Bill's post, I'm pretty sure my springbars are the same as his, 32in total, and about 30.5in to the u-bolt.

Edit2: Measured the bar -- is as stated above.

EDIT3: Ken. Will not be doing pictures unless you really need them. Let me know if you think they would help.

[scrubjaysnest]

Talked with "Ed" at the factory and he said "on some 2720SL's you cannot use a WDH" Even if I can find longer spring bars, with the gap I have on the swing tongue curb side I not sure the WDH is a good idea for me. As I noted in another thread http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...DH&page=6going from a TV GVWR of 7100# down to 5000#, hitch limits without WDH means I have to look at this issue really careful.
Re read what Tim and Bill are using for springs bars mine are 22210 stamped on the trunnion. No "H" and they are 30 inches not 32. Also they don't have the little curve for the cam device.
I will need to look at these newer bars and go from there.

[Bill]

You might want to work backward. Determine the length of the springbar that you need. Make sure that you know whether you are measuring outer-end-to-outer-end, or center of head to middle of U-bolt. Maybe sketch it. Then find a big hitch dealer (they've gotta have a ton of 'em in Florida), go in and talk to him, and see if you can buy the bars you need.

Or go visit him and take the bars that you currently have with you. Explain what you need that is different. Don't bother to go into a whole bunch of stuff about why you need them, and how a TM is built, and the problems of the swing tongue. He doesn't know and doesn't care, and it will just confuse the discussion. If you make it easy for him, he'll be more helpful, and you'll be happier.

As a last resort - or maybe a first - install the springbar lift-hook brackets where you need them on the TM frame, hook up your TM, go see him, and let him make the measurements.

If your current bars are clean and resellable, he might give you at least a partial trade-in on them. IMHO, it would be worth it, to get the use of a WDH.

Bill

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by Barry C Anderson

Thanks for the tips but I solved the problem as I noted previously by getting rid of the swing hitch. I first responded because someone asked if anyone had a swing hitch that failed. Someone also in the recent posts asked me if I had a picture of the swing hitch with the bent vertical plate so I included one for info. Thanks again for all the advice. I am fine now.

Barry,
I'm still troubled by your discovery. If you were actually able to bend the trailer swing hitch assembly by backing up a slope (conceptually, by lifting the trailer axle a number of inches), then your hitch receiver had to be hugely, unbelievably overloaded in the process of doing that (maybe 5 times more than "normal"?). You might want to look carefully at your hitch receiver and it's attachment points for any signs of failure.

Also, your "training wheels" on the back are capable of causing huge downward tongue loads (lifting the trailer from the back would be like shifting the axle aft temporarily). Be sure to keep a close eye on stress issues back there as well as on the hitch receiver on an ongoing basis.

[scrubjaysnest]

Originally Posted by Bill

You might want to work backward. Determine the length of the springbar that you need. Make sure that you know whether you are measuring outer-end-to-outer-end, or center of head to middle of U-bolt. Maybe sketch it. Then find a big hitch dealer (they've gotta have a ton of 'em in Florida), go in and talk to him, and see if you can buy the bars you need.

Or go visit him and take the bars that you currently have with you. Explain what you need that is different. Don't bother to go into a whole bunch of stuff about why you need them, and how a TM is built, and the problems of the swing tongue. He doesn't know and doesn't care, and it will just confuse the discussion. If you make it easy for him, he'll be more helpful, and you'll be happier.

As a last resort - or maybe a first - install the springbar lift-hook brackets where you need them on the TM frame, hook up your TM, go see him, and let him make the measurements.

If your current bars are clean and resellable, he might give you at least a partial trade-in on them. IMHO, it would be worth it, to get the use of a WDH.

Bill

Those are good thoughts and I have been thinking about just hooking the TM and taking it to several of the better RV dealers in the Ocala area. I have dealt with three there that I like.

Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure

Barry,
I'm still troubled by your discovery. If you were actually able to bend the trailer swing hitch assembly by backing up a slope (conceptually, by lifting the trailer axle a number of inches), then your hitch receiver had to be hugely, unbelievably overloaded in the process of doing that (maybe 5 times more than "normal"?). You might want to look carefully at your hitch receiver and it's attachment points for any signs of failure.

Also, your "training wheels" on the back are capable of causing huge downward tongue loads (lifting the trailer from the back would be like shifting the axle aft temporarily). Be sure to keep a close eye on stress issues back there as well as on the hitch receiver on an ongoing basis.

Yes the loads could have been fairly high on the hitch, but I sold the Ford Explorer earlier this year which was the vehicle that I damaged the swing hitch with and now have a chevy trailblazer with a fairly heavy hitch and no longer back up a steep driveway with the spring bar chains on a full setting which, was a mistake. In that way, I have no concerns about my hitch on my new vehicle. I do have some concerns about the training wheels, as I estimate that they are loaded to about 500 lbs each (1000 lbs total)and pick up about 1/3 of the 3000 lb back end of the trailer each side. I have not measured this but lets say when you jack up one side of the trailer to lift the tire off the ground, you have to jack up the trailer frame beside the wheel about 7.5 inches (assumption only) and this lifts up the 1500 lb one side of the empty trailer. Correspondingly if you lift the trailer frame by the trailer wheels only say 2.5 inches instead of the 7.5 inches by the effect of the training wheels you are only lifting about 1/3 or about 500 lbs of the trailer weight one each side with the training wheels. I will keep an eye on the trailer frame but am quite sure it will take this load, as it already had done once. The other thing I am concerned a little bit is the bike hitch frame which is only rated to about a 100 lb load, however it is bolted to the frame directly with a couple about 1/2 inch bolts each side which should take the 500 lbs in shear each side (250 lbs/bolt). The load is directly in line with the bolts in this case. In the summer I plan on taking my 3 ton jack and lift the back of the trailer up an inch or so and then drop it down on a scale to measure the force more accurately. Yes it is something I need to watch but if I do get around to measuring the force I will submit my findings later.

Someone mentioned failures related to the swing away hitch.

I do not use a WDH. I do have the swing away hitch.

Within the first year, still under warranty, there was a crack in the box tubing for the frame that wrapped about half way around.

I believe the crack started at a weld for the street side where the pivot point is.

The fix, besides welding the crack, was to add a piece of strap iron on the bottom and weld that in place.

I think this became a permanent design change for TMs with the swing away tongue.

Not exactly your situation, but somewhat related.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Barry C Anderson

Yes the loads could have been fairly high on the hitch, but I sold the Ford Explorer earlier this year which was the vehicle that I damaged the swing hitch with and now have a chevy trailblazer with a fairly heavy hitch and no longer back up a steep driveway with the spring bar chains on a full setting which, was a mistake. In that way, I have no concerns about my hitch on my new vehicle. I do have some concerns about the training wheels, as I estimate that they are loaded to about 500 lbs each (1000 lbs total)and pick up about 1/3 of the 3000 lb back end of the trailer each side. I have not measured this but lets say when you jack up one side of the trailer to lift the tire off the ground, you have to jack up the trailer frame beside the wheel about 7.5 inches (assumption only) and this lifts up the 1500 lb one side of the empty trailer. Correspondingly if you lift the trailer frame by the trailer wheels only say 2.5 inches instead of the 7.5 inches by the effect of the training wheels you are only lifting about 1/3 or about 500 lbs of the trailer weight one each side with the training wheels. I will keep an eye on the trailer frame but am quite sure it will take this load, as it already had done once. The other thing I am concerned a little bit is the bike hitch frame which is only rated to about a 100 lb load, however it is bolted to the frame directly with a couple about 1/2 inch bolts each side which should take the 500 lbs in shear each side (250 lbs/bolt). The load is directly in line with the bolts in this case. In the summer I plan on taking my 3 ton jack and lift the back of the trailer up an inch or so and then drop it down on a scale to measure the force more accurately. Yes it is something I need to watch but if I do get around to measuring the force I will submit my findings later.

Barry,

Does your TM have a lift kit?

If not, that could go a long way toward solving your problem You could even go 4" on the lift kit. The steel yard that I went to had 4"x3" tubing with 1/4" wall thickness. I almost used it on my trailer. I'm glad that I didn't. I used 2.5" tubing and I ended up with 1/4" clearance between the A/C unit and garage door.

Thanks. I already have the 2.5 inch lift kit. Your suggestion might have been about the same cost $200 as the skid wheels and overall a better solution. However now that I have the skid wheels on and they seem to be working okay, I will probably just continue to monitor it for now. Along with the significant cost, it takes about 3 hrs to install the skids wheels so the raising may be a better solution for others.