Yeti 1000 Lithium Station

[Casey Freswick]

Goal Zero Yeti 1000 Lithium Portable Power Station

Seen here at COSTCO: https://www.costco.com/Goal-Zero-Yet...100338966.html

Does this like a good idea? Does anyone a have any thoughts on this?

Given the total cost of other options this may be an all in one solution to a longer life battery.

I have seen the pro and cons on lithium batteries, but do not know if there are any reviews on the quality of the battery used in this unit. But I am thinking it would be similar or better than the lifePo4 currently discussed.

I just read in an older PC magazine review that these lithium batteries will lose 20% of their capacity after 500 cycles. Is this normal for all lithium batteries?

[Kidkraz]

Casey, are you wanting to use this verses a normal deep cycle battery on your rig. Or to use it as a back up for you rig?

[Casey Freswick]

I was thinking of it as an alternative to deep cycle and getting everything wired for a lithium battery. I expect to use the TM a lot int he next 7 years. So would be willing to get a lithium batter. Also hope to get a solar set up. But everything is in the planning stage yet. Will not make any major purchase till next Spring.

[rickst29]

It's terrible - but the reasons are very subtle. I "sorta looked" at the boxes in my own local Costco. But even if the Costco price was $400 off of "list" (and it isn't), this is not very useful within a TM.

• Problem 1: It requires 14V MINIMUM in order to be charged on one of the DC ports. Unless you have a PD Power Converter and keep pressing the "charge wizard" over and over again, re-invoking "Boost Mode", the Converter will operate at 13.6V (not enough)."nomrl
• Even with a PD running "Boost mode", the input "power pole" would only accept 10A maximum. Most of your Converter output (mine is 65A) can't be used to charge the Yeti battery.
• Your 12V power output is limited to 10A on 3 ports, but they're probably different connectors on the same circuit. 10A *total*, not 10A each. Is that enough? Maybe it is, because you'd run the Fridge on AC. But that's nothing like the output of standard TM batteries (fused at 30A), and it's an order of magnitude less than my '150A continuous' LiFePO4.
• Problem 4: If you use the Solar Panel input, all solar "power" delivered above 14V gets thrown away. The 'Yeti'' contains an "el-cheapo" PWM controller, not an MPPT. They charge another $100 to upgrade to MMPT - while still accepting only 10A max.
• Problem 5 MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL: Ths contains a basic Lithium-Ion battery, good for only about 500 discharge/recharge cycles. That's no better than a decent lead-acid "deep-cycle" battery, and not even 1/10 the lifespan of a LiFePO4 (if treated with moderate care).

With all that money you could buy one a single 100ah LiFePO4 from China *and* the Converter upgrade to run it. Or, for a couple hundred more, you could buy a USA-Built battery from BattleBorn, Dragonfly, or Dakota Lithium (while still including the purchase of a great PD 'Wildkat' Lithium-Compatible Converter). And 100ah @ 12.8V is 22% bigger than the battery in the Yeti (10.8V, 96.8Ah).

With a couple hundred more, you can buy a 1500W continuous inverter. A great MPPT controller, programmable for LiFePO4, costs about $130. Incidentals (a 'coulomb counter' battery monitor, some big "power distribution blocks" to connect multiple #2 and #6 wires together) add another $100 or so.

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by Casey Freswick

I was thinking of it as an alternative to deep cycle and getting everything wired for a lithium battery. I expect to use the TM a lot in the next 7 years. So would be willing to get a lithium batter. Also hope to get a solar set up. But everything is in the planning stage yet. Will not make any major purchase till next Spring.

Will you ever need to have the battery accept charging at temperatures below freezing? LiFePO4 batteries can't do that. They can deliver power OUT, but they can't be charged at low temps. This is the only significant weakness of LiFePO4 batteries.

When cold: If plugged in overnight, you can use a circuit breaker to disconnect the battery from the Power Converter AND connect a normal, small AGM or SLA battery to satisfy "battery voltage detection" requirements of the Power Converter. Or (better), simply kill the circuit breaker for the Power Converter alone, and let the battery handle all 12V requirements until morning warms up the temperatures.

Or (best) If you store a LiFePO4 within the TM living space, you can use heaters (TM propane or "plugged in" 120V electric) too keep the living space and battery above 32F. That's what I will be doing, when expecting dawn temps below 32F at plugged-in RV parks.
- - - - -
Solar (in winter) is more complex. If the panels will start generating current at charging voltage (charge voltage should be 14.4 / 13.6) in the early AM, for an unheated TM battery - you will damage the battery(s). In winter boondocking camp, you'll be using a heater to keep TM interior space warm enough.

But for winter storage: You should disconnect the LiFePO4 battery and bring it indoors. Before disconnecting the battery and loosing settings on all your 12V equipment, put a small AGM or SLA in parallel. With that done, disconnect and remove the Lithium battery, and use connected Solar (or a "battery minder", or the TM plugin on the 30A cord) to keep the Lead-Acid battery up over winter. The LiFePO4, without any loads, looses power very slowly - and probably need no charging in the house at all.

[Casey Freswick]

I was hoping you would reply. I have followed you upgrade to lithium. The only hesitation is over the years I have always depended on my father-in-law electrician for all that work. I am a good overall mechanic and general fixer. But have not attempted much electrical stuff. But when I retire in 6 months who knows. I will take your advice. Lithium batter is in my future next spring. And likely solar upgrade as well. We will see then if I will tackle it myself. Thanks for the advice. Will not get the Yeti. Knew I would get good feedback here. Thanks again. FYI. I will not be surprised if I do Boon-docking that includes cold weather night altitude. I am from MT and expect to return there on a regular basis. I have a Wave propane heater that has already worked in that environment.

[rickst29]

I think that Klpauba would not be offended if I share some of our history: I chose exactly what components he should install on his big upgrade (which uses his Chevy as a big Solar Panel whenever he drives to the MN North Shore of Lake Superior).

I bought nearly all of the parts he would need, and configured them at my house in Nevada (working with my own TM to test everything). He sent me a big check and I sent him the parts in a big box. Numerous PMs and board messages got all the wiring cleaned up, it works great.
- - - -
We don't need to do that, because the "brand new at that time" parts have all been on the market for quite a while. But I would be delighted to define exactly which batteries to buy; which Solar Controller to get; which panels to get; which 'Converter Upgrade' to get; which Inverter to get; and how to wire it together. We'll make a new Thread!

If you want to go whole-hog, and do the 'TV as a giant solar panel upgrade, that only adds about $100 in parts. But that's a second possible upgrade, subsequent to the Battery/Inverter/Solar changes. With both steps, wait until February: Most of the parts should cost less, unless China tariffs go completely nuts and get extended to included other countries.

[rickst29]

Then it might be a really good option.

Used "heavily" as a primary battery, with lots of discharge/recharge cycles, it will wear out in just a few years (like cellphones, and like lead-acid).

But use in conjunction WITH a normal 12V battery setup, turned on only for the purpose of providing 120V for "momentary" things like coffee and cooking, it might last a really long time. Some Airstream people really like them, in that manner of use.

[Casey Freswick]

This sounds really great. I expect to contact you in February. Thanks again.

[BrucePerens]

Lithium ferophosphate batteries may be the future. Right now, they are horribly expensive not because of any materials cost, they don't use cobalt like lithium ion batteries, but because of the high intellectual-property royalties charged for the specialized coatings on their electrodes. The internal resistance of the battery is too high without these coatings, which are carbon microtubules or some other high-tech stuff. What you are paying for is a many times markup on the cost of the research. Eventually, newer developments, competition, and economies of scale will lower the intellectual property cost.

The longer you wait to get lithium batteries, the better and less expensive they will be.