Towing my 3023 w/kia sedona

Originally Posted by Bill

I'll second most of these posts. That bouncy floating feeling is ALWAYS (in my experience) due to insufficient tongue weight. A trailer MUST put at least 10% of its total weight on the tongue - the TM's are biased more toward 13-14%, for added stability. If you disturb the tongue weight percent, you are asking for trouble.

...

Moral - don't dork with the hitch weight. If you are messing with it in hopes of gaining more towing capacity, then you have another issue to grapple with entirely.

Bill

Bill, thanks for the insight.
When I've talked with other novices about my upcoming trailer purchase and the extra money I need to spend to get my 2002 Sedona ready for pulling a TM-23 (WDH, which requires upgrading from class II to class III hitch), one response I get is, "Why not just put more stuff in the back of the trailer to redistribute the weight off the tongue?" So correct me if I'm wrong; my response should be:
"Because for a trailer to tow correctly, the tongue weight should be 13-14% of the total weight. If you put stuff in the back to reduce the tongue weight, you are messing with that percentage, because the overall trailer weight increases and the tongue weight decreases."
If I understand correctly, the WDH distributes the weight without reducing the tongue weight. Is that right?

Thanks,
Randy in Delaware

My husband just ordered some spring air bags for the Kia Sedona. We are told they add 1,000 lbs of towing abilitity to the TV. As for power, that is another thing, although the plus for KIA is that it has a 5 speed Trans as opposed to most 4 speed tranmissions in other minivans/vehicles. We aren't going to be traveling the mountains anytime soon, but we will be looking for another TV eventually.

Here is an example of the air bags I'm talking about, although I'm not sure who my husband ordered through.

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/r...e-air-bags.htm
Cathy

Some people like the supplemental air springs and their ability to keep the TV level is a plus, but they are no substitute for a WDH. They do not relieve the TV rear axle of the extra load and they do not distribute part of that load to the front axle thereby regaining lost steering ability. They merely add stiffness to the springs that are already there preventing the TV rear end from drooping as much. I would be dubious about their ability to "add 1000lbs to towing capacity".

Just my opinion.

-Paul

[rickst29]

Air shocks (or bags) are an OK thing on a *BIG* pickup truck (long wheelbase, heavy front end, hardly any body structure and weight at the rear). But they're nearly as bad as nothing at all on your minivan: Instead of re-balancing the loads, they simply HIDE the fact that the rear axle is overloaded. In fact, by raising the rear axle back up, it takes even more of the trailer tongue weight than it would if you let it sag. That Salesman had bad advice, and doesn't know $#%@ about this. To be safe with this TV, you gotta have a WDH. I'd strongly recommend that you cancel that order, if you can.

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I don't know if the Kia tranny normally tries to "locks up" when cruising at constant speed. My Toyota does. Even though the engine, a monster V8, has lots of torque and COULD run in 5th at 1000 RPM and 30 MPH, they don't let it do that because the stress on the tranny gears wold be too much.

It also wouldn't lock up properly. While the transmission is running "unlocked", as it always does before and after a shift, the clutches inside the transmission case are under stress-- WAY TO MUCH stress, if you are "lugging" in a low gear. And the fluid sloshing around while unlocked tends to overheat, quickly.

Toyota says NEVER tow with my 4Runner in 5th. If you watch the odometer really close, and see a "drop off" of abut 150-200 RPMs while cruising at constant speed, then the tranny IS locking up, and you won't be in danger of overheating the fluid. But if you don't KNOW that the tranny is locking up, leave it in 4th.

We do have a weight distribution hitch, I think it's a Draw Tite(?), we are getting the air bags as an extra.
Cathy

[rickst29]

Cathy, I'm glad to see that you're online. (Sorry to sound a little more rude than most people, I always talk that way.) When you have the WDH on the correct strength (# of links), the Sedona is already level. Air springs are for pickup trucks, where the front is WAY heavier than the back to begin with. Your Minivan, although a bit "front-heavy", is not in this class.

Extra/Stronger springs in the back doesn't do much of anything for your total hauling capacity-- remember, the WDH puts equal portions of the load onto both axles. If you wanted to upgrade to HD suspension components, you'd want to do it on both axles, or the front axle (first).

If you've already got 'em in, then you need to adjust your WDH as follows: (1) BEFORE attaching the WDH head to the hitch receiver, level the Sedona (loaded with all your vacation stuff). (2) Now turn the ignition off (if they're fancy auto-adjusting airsprings.) You don't want the airsprings and WDH trying to "adjust at the same time, it'll end up totally wrong. (3) measure the height on the Sedona body at the top of the wheel wells, as above. (4) hook up WDH and set the torque so that the front and back of the Sedona, at the wheel wells, goes down by the same distance.

If you really like, you can then add just a tiny bit of extra air for the passengers.
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BTW, I see from your posts that you have upgraded the hitch receiver, THAT was smart!

I'll make sure my husband reads your post rickst29, because being a "typical woman", I have limited knowledge of these matters. I think he has been doing a lot of research on the internet and that is what made him decide to add the bags. He got them for around $80 so it's not like it's a huge financial loss if we don't use them. And we'll have them for a future vehicle if needed.
Cathy

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by delawareprogrammer

If I understand correctly, the WDH distributes the weight without reducing the tongue weight. Is that right?

"Tongue Weight" appears to the vehicle as both torque (not just "dead weight") on the two axles. Being behind the rear axle, it tries to "twist" the front axle up, and the axle down. A WDH doesn't change the total vertical load, but by changing the torque, it reverses this twisting effect: Instead of twisting the front axle UP, it is now being twisted down-- the net effect being a vertical load, roughly equal to the vertical load being placed on the rear axle. The WDH also "twists" backwards along the TM frame members, putting load back on to the Trailer axle(s). This weight truly disappears completely, as far as the TV is concerned. Within the WDH itself, the dead weight (vertical) on the hitch ball is increased, becuase the bars are pulling the arms of the TM frame down. But the head is converted most of this into "upwards twist" on the TM frame and the hitch shank. That's why you need to connect the WDH hitch before you connect and adjust the links, and why they come with extra strong "shanks". Your Tow Vehicle never really felt the "tongue weight" at the hitch ball anyway, it "feels" the shank.

Instead of all the weight appearing as a "downwards" twist of dead load at a certain distance, the tow bar is given a powerful UPWARDS "twist" to make the vehicle stay level. Most of the "tongue weight" is still there, but some of it disappears from the TV, having been twisted back on to the trailer.

There is something else to check. Vans such as yours are considered more passenger cars than truck. Sometimes they come with comfortable riding passenger tires rather than load carrying light truck tires. The stiffer sidewalls in a light truck tire can take more weight without squirming. Also check your owners manual to see if additional air in the rear tires is recommended for heavy loads. Just before a recent trip across country I was stupid enough to get passenger replacement tires for my Chevy Astro Van because they were cheaper. When it was loaded down, I felt like Iwas driving on slick mud at times when I made a turn. Thankfully adjusting the air pressure in the tires made a huge difference. 36# in the rear and 34# in the front made the difference in my situation. I never thought how different the tires could be with the same exact size and how much 2-4 pounds of air could make. I hope this helps.

[fcatwo]

Hondo

I agree with your advice that most vehicles need more air in their tires when towing to handle the additional weight and stresses. I particularly like the fact that you offered that advice as a result of personal experience. Unfortunately it's sometimes difficult to determine which comments offered here are based on personal experience and knowledge as opposed to personal opinion. It's customary on many sites to preface opinions with an IMO (in my opinion) to let those reading it know it's not based on experience or personal knowledge. We all comment at length on subjects of interest discussed here and IMO we need to get back to using IMO if that what it is.