Toyota 4Runner replaces Honda ODY

[Denny_A]

Background: MY '01 Honda Ody was inadequate for my needs; towing a 2720SL. After a few false starts, I traded for a '00 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4x4.

Results: The maiden trip was a 2133 mi excursion, out-n-back, to the Black Hills of SD. I learned that............

a) getting to max torque at lower RPM (3600 vs. 4300) contributes to better acceleration to Hiway speed. NB; the Honda produced 225 lb-ft (@4300 RPM) and the 4Runner 217 lb-ft. (@3600 RPM). Call it even for max Q, but advantage Toyota due to lower RPM.

b) Rear wheel drive, compared to FWD, is a good thing for towing heavy stuff!

c) 4WD makes the comparison in b) - irrelevant.

d) Even a 3 yr old Toyota still feels like (and looks like) a new vehicle.

e) Eleven inches of ground clearance inspires confidence that nearly any terrain is a potential road.

Economy of Operation: Mfrs stats call for 16 City and 19 mpg Hwy for the V-6, SR5 4x4 w/auto xmsn.

I kept accurate records. The trip overall average was 16.0 mpg. Of the total 2133 miles, 400 miles were non-towing miles. I am very pleased w/the result, since my ODY averaged around 17 mpg when towing and 24+- when not.

Worst mpg: 13.0 - into the teeth of a 25+ mph wind for nearly 150 miles, in off & on T-Storms and heavy rain.

Best: 23.5 mpg - trailer parked, 4Runner on good roads in the Black Hills. I'm 100% sure of the numbers!

I used the same WDH hitch as for the Ody. There was no anti-sway unit connected. The only handling problem involved very strong crosswinds and the need to cancel the steering wheel x-wind correction force when a big rig blocked the trailer x-wind effect. After a couple of unexpected swerves, a little anticipation (when a big rig passed) made it a non-event.

The increased towing limit (5000 lbs vs. 3500 lbs ) and GCWR (9200 lbs vs. 8160 lbs) go a long way toward making my trailering as carefree as I had originally thought it should have been.

I love my 4Runner. So does Ms. Teddy 8)

Happy Trailering, y'all,

Denny_A

Denny,

Thanks for a great (and very useful) report. Glad your trip was such a success! We're still getting a few things sorted on our new-to-us 4Runner (brakes & alignment) and hope to dip our toes into the trailer-towing pond next Spring. The truck seems pretty solid, although in looking things over carefully I've been surprised at the amount of corrosion on the frame & mechanical hardware. Body appears fine, though. Evidently it started life in Ohio - guess they must use lots of salt?? Anyway, so far I've been getting about 19 mpg in mixed city/highway driving. It will be interesting to see how it handles in the snow.

I'm sure I'll have some questions for you as we progress toward TrailManorism - always better not to reinvent the wheel...

Cheers!

Steve

Denny,

Did you have any indication from your owner's manual (or otherwise) for NOT using a WDH? I tow a M27 with a 94 LandCruiser; for which, the owners manual says NOT to use a Reese WDH. Toyota and Reese confirmed that but would/could not give a reason other than possible adverse load-shifting; which in turn, they could not elaborate upon. With 380lbs of tongue weight, the WDH levels things out nicely.

Regards,
Vortex

[Denny_A]

[quote author=vortex link=board=20;threadid=1379;start=msg9926#msg9926 date=1065533258]
Denny,

Did you have any indication from your owner's manual (or otherwise) for NOT using a WDH? I tow a M27 with a 94 LandCruiser; for which, the owners manual says NOT to use a Reese WDH. Toyota and Reese confirmed that but would/could not give a reason other than possible adverse load-shifting; which in turn, they could not elaborate upon. With 380lbs of tongue weight, the WDH levels things out nicely.

Regards,
Vortex
[/quote]
Vortex,

I was aware of that before I purchased the vehicle. I chose to ignore it. My WDH works just fine. I am not aware of the "load shifting" reason.

A detailed specs sheet I found on the internet said something about not recommending a WDH. It seemed a casual reference, as a opposed to a prohibition. The vague response you received seems to indicate another example of mfr rep double speak. I.e., we know what's recommended, but haven't a clue as to why. Anyway.......

Once I had the 4Runner, I connected it w/o the WDH hooked up. The rear settled about 3-4" and the front raised about 1+ inch. With the WDH connected, the whole vehicle settled about an inch. The front end was 1/4" higher than the rear (relative to their starting heights). As far as I'm concerned, it's good to go.

My first (and only, so far) run of 2100 miles proved the setup to be very stable. I'm sticking with it!!!

BTW, my hitch is not a Reese. That did not effect my decision, since I wasn't aware of a specific brand name being specified.


Denny_A

Denny/Vortex:

I don't know why the manufacturers make this so difficult. Here's the website for the 2004 Toyota 4 Runner:

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2004/4runner/specs.html

So what does it say -- the V-6 rating is based on weight-CARRYING, but the V-8 is based on weight-DISTRIBUTING. So that sounds to me like the V-6 shouldn't be used with a W/D hitch. Is the rating based on engineering or scientific data? If I were a guessing person I'd say, "No, probably on liability & concerns about litigation." Best I can figure these trucks are the same -- same frame, body, etc. The only thing different is the engine and transmission (V-6 = 4speed; v-8 = 5speed). Sure the vehicles have different weights but that would effect the towing capacity weight limits. Why does engine & transmission effect the type of hitch. This doesn't make any sense to me.

... but like I've said so many times before on this website, I have a rather simple mind.

Ed

Hey guys,
I have a 1998 Toyota Tacoma SR5. The owners manual specifically does not reccommend using a weight distributing hitch. I asked the Toyota Dealer service manager and the service managers at the 2 RV dealerships in our area. They all seem to agree that the reason Toyota does not recommend using a WD hitch is this. My truck is rated at 4500lbs GVwr. it weighs about 3200lbs. with 2 people and full fuel. Putting 350 lbs on the bumper hitch is equivalent to putting 400-500 lbs in the bed of the truck. Hence, no WD hitch is needed. So they say. I have pulled a 3400lbs Coleman camper without a WD hitch and the truck settled 3-4 inches in back. It handled just fine, so I thought. Made a 2300 mile trip to tennesse and back to florida. Put i still liked the idea of a WD hitch. We used to own a dodge Van and pulled a 24 ft. Coachman with it. Had to have a WD hitch for that rig. so I installed a Reese Wd hitch on my Toyota Tacoma. Pulled the same Coleman camper with it and the differences were noticeable right away. The truck had more positive feel in steering and felt more stable on the interstate. I am glad i Got the Wd hitch.
We are now looking to buy a TM. 2619 or 2720.
The toyota Dealer said the WD hitch would not affect the trucks warranty. My truck is out of warranty anyway. Just dont exceed the Weight restrictions for truck, trailer, and the combined weight of the 2 vehicles.
Anyway I would not be without a WD hitch, for trailers of the TM size. They due make a difference. Despite what Toyota says.
Hope this helps.
Grampa

Grandpa has it right. If I drop the hitch on the ball and my headlights are showing me where the owls are sitting in the tree, I'm going to use a W/D hitch. What he describes is just too much lift on the front to me.

Ed

[Denny_A]

I have my dealer's top mechanic in the process of getting a definitive answer from Toyota. Said it could take a couple of days.

Even tho I've only worked with the Toyota dealer's peeps for about a month, I have enormous respect for every one I've dealt with so far. The mech realized he knew the right answers - but, didn't know WHY the answers were right. The salesman who helped get me to the right person has a 4Runner AND he's just about to buy....... a Trailmanor. What're the odds? So he is keenly interested in the outcome.

[Odds! The answer of course is: Neither better, nor worse than any other event which has occurred since the beginning of time (think about it.). ]


Denny_A

[rtcassel]

I have had a similar problem getting a plausible answer from Toyota about a statement (within a box) in the Tundra manual:

NOTICE (in yellow)
Vehicles with the 2UZ-FE [ie V8] engine (with towing package) -- Only use a ball mount attachment specified for the Toyota Tundra.

I want to get an Equal-i-zer sway control hitch, but the folks at Equal-i-zer do not have a shank that is "specified for the Toyota Tundra." It is a shank that fits all 2x2 receivers.

At first I was told by Toyota that the notice meant that I needed to get the right ball for the bumper. Once we got it straight that "ball" and "ball mount" are different, the last thing they said was that the sway control hitch would be OK if "the hitch company guarantees compatibility with the Toyota receiver."

What makes the receiver different because there is a V8 engine and towing package?

No one at [email protected] (Ask Toyota) seems to be able to answer. A fellow in the parts department at the dealer gave his opinion that you want to be sure to get a ball mount attachment that will handle the heavier tow weight that the V8 with tow package allows (as opposed to a V6 with a receiver -- I do not think that you can get the tow package with the V6). This sounds like a reasonable explanation of the NOTICE, but I am frustrated in dealing with the people answering the questions at Ask Toyota.

Think this is confusing -- I was considering a new VW Tourareg (who could resist that advertised 7700lb and VW reliability combination). Then I read the Edmund's VW forum -- and man, there is a sh**storm raging over there (and in letters to VW) over tow capacity.

The only receiver that works is the one you buy from VW (the rear bumper needs to be modified, and part of the receiver fits into a groove in the rear bumper). But the label on the receiver says its a Class II. So how many CLass II hitches are rated for 7700lbs? Then the vehicle is also limited in tongue weight to about 400lbs. So again how do you get that 7700lbs down to a 400lb tongue weight? In reality, maybe the real capacity is 3500lbs with 400lb max tongue. Obviously the frame and vehicle are heavy enough (over 5000 lbs), and the drive train is more than capable, but it seems VW really drooped the ball on the hitch receiver design. (Actually VW doesn't make the hitch, I can't recall the name of the real German manufacturer)

So I guess all this is probably saying the car maker themselves do not seem to have a real wealth of info on REAL tow capacities. I wish it were easier, but it is sounding more like rocket science all the time.

I had a neighbor one time that had a Chevy S-10 and some beemouth TT. I asked him if the truck was rated to tow it. He said, "if I hook it up and the frame isn't yanked out from under the truck and the rear bumper isn't generating sparks when going down the Interstate at 70mph -- don't worry, be happy." Ignorance is bliss I guess, and he was the most blissful person I ever met.

Ed