Jeep Cherokee and 3023

Does anyone have any experience towing a 3023 with a Jeep Cherokee?

[jbeletti]

tslon,

See RockyMtnRay's response to my post at: http://www.trailmanorowners.com/yabb...;threadid=1509

He uses a Cherokee.

By the way, last night, my wife decided on the 3023 over the 2720SD/SL. We will be pulling the 3023 with a Jeep Liberty. Hope it works!

Jim

I saw that response but he was using a manual trasmission which is not recommended for towing at those loads. I have seen posts about 2720's nothing specific about 3023's (which I am in the same boat with you based on my wifes decision). My Jeep is an automatic with 3.55 gear ratio and not the 3.07.

The Trailmanor specs for the 3023 is listed as 2.5 ft longer and only 50lbs more than the 2720SL. That's where the question lies. Does this really make that much difference in towing and will it affect the Jeep?

[RockyMtnRay]

[quote author=tslon link=board=20;threadid=1513;start=msg10688#msg1068 8 date=1068217385]
I saw that response but he was using a manual trasmission which is not recommended for towing at those loads. I have seen posts about 2720's nothing specific about 3023's (which I am in the same boat with you based on my wifes decision). My Jeep is an automatic with 3.55 gear ratio and not the 3.07.
[/quote]
The automatic/3.55 combination is definitely better than the manual/3.07 combination I had...if and only if you have a heavy duty transmission cooler. As HappyTrails has reported elsewhere on this forum about his discussions with transmission shops, the Cherokee's automatic transmission has a noticeably higher incidence of failure than most SUVs when regularly used for towing. It's simply not a very strong transmission. Keeping the transmission fluid as cool as possible...and using synthetic transmission fluid (along with regular servicing...every 15,000 miles would be best) will greatly help improve the transmission's longevity.

The Trailmanor specs for the 3023 is listed as 2.5 ft longer and only 50lbs more than the 2720SL. That's where the question lies. Does this really make that much difference in towing and will it affect the Jeep?

Answer, yes the extra length **can** make a significant difference in towing.

First, although TM's specs don't show much difference in empty weight, in real world towing there will be a substantially greater difference simply because the extra storage space on the 3023 will allow/encourage you to load it more heavily. A typically loaded 3023 is often 200 to 300 lbs heavier than a typically loaded 2720.

Secondly, the Cherokee is a very short wheelbase vehicle...only 100 inches. That can present serious control issues under two situations: crosswinds, especially when meeting/passing semis; and sharply curving descents on mountain roads. In either of these situations, the trailer tends to pivot the tow vehicle around its rear wheels. Short wheelbase tow vehicles have less leverage to resist that trailer induced pivoting. A longer trailer is heavier and has substantially greater side area for the wind to act on and will exert a much greater pivoting leverage on the tow vehicle. After around 5000 miles of towing a 2720 with a Cherokee I gradually concluded that it simply didn't have very much margin of control even with a 20 foot trailer. No close calls, mind you, but just a repeated sense that any emergency maneuver could have resulted in a complete loss of control. The margin of control would be substantially less with a 23 foot long 3023.

All things considered, I would not recommend towing a 3023 with a Cherokee. You may not have any problems on flat terrain as long as you never have to brake hard or make a sudden, sharp turn. But if you ever want to tow on steep mountain roads (the descents are worse than the climbs)...or ever do any emergency maneuvering, things could get very dicey very fast.

It's probably worth considering the reaction of the most experienced tech at the hitch shop that does hitch setups for the local TrailManor dealer. I was having trouble getting the Cherokee level with my TM hooked up so the TM dealer suggested I call this hitch shop. Even at a shop that knows the TM ease of towability...and in a town where both Cherokees and camping/travel trailers are ubiquitous...the guy was almost incredulous that I was trying to tow a 20 foot trailer with a Cherokee. He said that the Cherokee, while fun and a very capable offroad SUV, simply didn't have, in his opinion, enough wheel base or enough brakes to be pulling a 20 foot, 3700 lb trailer. He continued by saying I was probably the only person in this town of 400,000 who was even trying to do this. That conversation was in the middle of last summer...by the end of the summer I was increasingly seeing the wisdom of his thoughts. 3 weeks ago I traded the Cherokee in for a pickup with a 130 inch wheebase, a 240 hp V8, a 3.91 axle ratio, and a towing package.

[Bill]

Let me take a slightly different approach to the question.

All of us ask the question "How much can my tow vehicle tow? What is the tow rating?" And we expect the manufacturer to provide an answer - "It will tow x thousand pounds." But the question itself is nearly meaningless because it is so undefined. Until you specify HOW you will tow and WHERE you will tow, no single number can represent the vehicle's REAL towing capacity.

If you are going to be towing at 55mph on Interstates in the flatlands of the midwest or the Gulf coast, then your vehicle can handle quite a bit of weight. If you get into the Appalachians, like Virginia/Kentucky/Tennessee, where most of the road is a 4% grade, 6% grades are common, and 8% is occasionally encountered, then you can tow considerably less. And if you get into the Rockies or the Sierras, and off the Interstate, where the roads are twisty, almost everything is 7-8%, 10% is not unusual, and 12% can be found - well, your real tow capacity may be only half of what it was back in southern Illinois. So first and foremost, you need to know where you are going to tow.

You also need to understand that the car manufacturer is anxious to sell cars, so when you ask "How much can it tow?", he is going to give you the biggest answer he can - the flatlands-of-southern-Illinois answer. And TM wants to sell trailers, so with no disrespect to Bill Hulsey, when you ask him "Can I tow a 3023 with vehicle X?", he is also going to give you the southern Illinois answer. In both cases, the answer isn't wrong, but it is only applicable to southern Illinois. And if that's where you are going to be towing, that's fine.

But if that's not where you're going to be towing, it is important that you not let the southern Illinois answer mislead you. The results can be unsatisfactory ("Why can't I go up this hill faster?"). Or they can be bad ("Damn - my transmission blew!") Or they can be catastrophic ("In the crosswind, the trailer apparently took control of the tow vehicle and pushed it off the edge of the mountain - film at 11").

Fortunately, the latter scenario doesn't play out very often. We are better drivers than we think. But the other two play out daily.

From my own experience on twice-yearly cross-country trips, I can tell you that my Ford Explorer (V-8, 5-speed automatic, 3.73, factory tow package, 7000-pound tow rating) feels like gross overkill as we zip along the Interstates from eastern Colorado to Ohio at (Colorado Cop, stop reading here) 70 mph. "Tell me again why we bought all that?" my wife asks. But that same Explorer, pulling that same TM, feels barely adequate as we chug up into campgrounds at 8000 feet in Sequoia and Yosemite National Parks. "Wish we had a little more power", my wife says. The towing capacity in Illinois might very well be something like 7000 pounds. The towing capacity in the Sierras is barely 3500 pounds.

So where are you going to tow, and camp? You need to answer that question - not for us, but for yourself. We can help you evaluate your trailer/tow vehicle combo once you tell us the answer. But without it, neither this board, nor the Jeep dealer, nor Bill Hulsey, can really be much help.

Bill

------------------------
A couple other notes - my answer wouldn't be complete without them.
1. There is a tendency for many of us to concentrate on the tow vehicle's POWER, as if pulling up steep grades is all we do. My post tends to fall into that trap, but that's not wise. Safety issues are even more important, and in this respect, Ray's answer is much more balanced than mine. Things like braking capacity are vitally important. On this board I have related my horror story of losing one of the TM brakes as we went through a tight downhill turn on a twisty, miles-long 10-12% downgrade on Rte 191 in Arizona - and the fact that I had no choice but total reliance on the Explorer's brakes to bring the entire rig to a straight stop before we went over the canyon wall. A lighter vehicle wouldn't have made it. Wheelbase - the tow vehicle's ability to resist being snapped around by the trailer - was also vitally important there.
2. Even in the best case, a vehicle's "tow rating" is a MAXIMUM number. On a routine basis, you shoudn't plan to operate at or near this number, because it stresses your tow vehicle into early failure. False economy.
3. Surely some members of this board live in southern Illinois. I assure you I mean no disrespect to your area of the country - I use it simply to illustrate one extreme of the towing experience. No corn was hurt in the making of this post. In fact, having lived in Chicago for a couple years in the 60's, I have to say I prefer your section of the state .... oh, nuts, now I have to apologize to Chicagolanders.

Colorado Cop, you may re-enter the room now.

Bill

[RockyMtnRay]

[quote author=jbeletti link=board=20;threadid=1513;start=msg10686#msg1068 6 date=1068214328]
By the way, last night, my wife decided on the 3023 over the 2720SD/SL. We will be pulling the 3023 with a Jeep Liberty. Hope it works!

Jim
[/quote]

Ok Jim, some advice:

1. A weight distributing hitch will be absolutely mandatory with the 3023. Not only should the Liberty's front not rise when hooked up, it should sink as much as the rear will. By thus adding additional down force to the front of the Liberty, you will gain some very badly needed steering (and braking) control over that long trailer.

2. Don't even tow one time before you have a heavy duty transmission cooler installed. I would also suggest you completely replace your transmission fluid with synthetic (Mobil 1 or Amsoil) at the same time. Synthetic fluids don't degrade nearly as badly when hot as fluids made from petroleum do...and they tend to run cooler to begin with. Also, never, ever tow in Overdrive if you're interested in transmission longevity. Lock out your overdrive...yeah, the engine will be noisier and your gas mileage will drop 1 to 2 mpg...but it'll help avoid an early death to your transmission.

3. I checked the specs on the Liberty's V6. That's a high revving, car type engine...your peak torque is at a fairly high 4000 RPM. Be prepared to shift down and use a lot of RPM (at least 4000) when going up hills...you will get your best performance and put the least stress on the engine by not "lugging it".