Freezing Temp for Treated Toilet Water?

TnP-2027 · 09-09-2020, 09:20 AM

We had a camping trip get cancelled on us, so I put the camper away with the toilet filled with treated water (unused): https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...ad.php?t=20248

The temps dipped to 32 F last night, so I have been wondering about the toilet.

My thoughts are that the Campa-Chem would likely lower the freezing temp of straight water.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

TnP-2027 · 09-09-2020, 10:07 AM

I found a MSDS for Campa-Chem, it lists the freezing point @ 32 degrees F...

**Bill** · 09-09-2020, 10:57 AM

I saw the same spec.

Sometimes, the mix of two substances will have a freezing point lower than either one alone. If you want to experiment, you could mix some CampaChem with water in a bucket, in the same ratio as you used in your TM toilet - 8oz to 3 gallons? Put a cup or so of the mix in a shallow dish, and put it in the freezing compartment of your refrigerator. Does it freeze?

Your K0 call sign says you are somewhere in the northern midwest, where it can get really cold. I suspect that this "science experiment" is not worth the effort. You need to drain your toilet, or add some serious RV antifreeze.

The real question is - Did you properly winterize the rest of the TM? If not, freezing will do serious damage, and if your temps have dropped to 32 already, you don't have much time.

Bill

**ShrimpBurrito** · 09-09-2020, 11:18 AM

If you’re actually camping, you probably won’t have to worry about the toilet freezing with Camp Chem because a) you’ll have it much above freezing inside the TM for probably most of the time; and b) even if you let the inside drop below 32, it probably won’t be for long enough to freeze that mass of water, particularly since you’ll be making 98.6 degree deposits periodically.

Alternatively, use Aqua Kem. Since it’s made of formaldehyde and methanol, it’s freezing point will be far south of 32 degrees. I’ve camped in the teens, and it has never come close to even showing signs of freezing.

Dave

**ShrimpBurrito** · 09-09-2020, 11:21 AM

As to your immediate problem, I wonder if freezing liquid inside the Electra Magic would actually cause any damage. It’s not a sealed container, and you certainly have upward space for expansion. Maybe the internal parts, like the pump intake, could be damaged....

Dave

TnP-2027 · 09-09-2020, 11:39 AM

Thanks all!

I am in Colorado (NE part), where the temps went from 108 on Sunday to 38 on Tuesday, and then this morning we saw temps of 32.

We are headed for the Black Hills Friday, and then one more camping trip the following weekend, so I am not ready to winterize, just hoping I made it through this unique combination of events!

I should be able to pick up the camper tonight, or possibly tomorrow after work.

I can report back on how the toilet survive the cold!

**Bill** · 09-09-2020, 01:07 PM

If you have electric power available, a small portable heater would solve the problem, of course. A small propane cat heater would do the same thing.

Bill

TnP-2027 · 09-17-2020, 04:04 PM

The toilet seems to have survived the cold temp experience!

TheGuppy · 12-31-2020, 02:32 PM

What damage would be done if the toilet holding tank does freeze? I want to use my 2518 '96 trailer for Mammoth ski trips and am trying my best to winterize and make sure that we are set for the freezing temps & high altitudes.

What would be the best way to use our toilet in freezing temps, what would be the issues if it freezes & are there any potential issues with altitude changes (I've read about composting toilets building pressure and spitting out the nasty when you open the lid for the first time after ascending)?

**Bill** · 01-01-2021, 07:53 AM

Since the toilet holding tank is part of the toilet, and is therefore inside the TM, it won't freeze as long as the TM interior is warm. If you plan to leave the TM unheated during the day, leave an electric space heater on the counter next to the wardrobe, or on the floor of the hallway, pointed into the bathroom.

Perhaps a bigger question is how you will fill and drain the toilet. Remember, the outside dump valve will freeze into whatever position (open or closed) you left it in, and you won't be able to move it to the other position. My suggestion is that if you plan to dump the toilet during your trip, you leave the outside valve open, hook up your slinky hose, and dump using the inside valve (on the toilet). The alternative is plan not to dump, and drive home with a partially full tank.

In some ways, this just trades one problem for another. If you dump, now your slinky hose and fittings are wet inside, and that water will freeze. This can make it hard to uncouple the hose, and the hose will be stiff with ice when you do get it uncoupled. To help with this problem, while the hose is connected, be sure to lift it to dump ALL the water out, so there is only a skin of moisture inside. If there is an area of standing water in the hose, it will freeze into a solid plug solid plug of ice, you will find this difficult to deal with. And it may damage the hose.

I suggest taking a hair dryer and an extension cord with you. The hot air can sometimes free a frozen valve for you, as long as the valve doesn't have a load of frozen water behind it.

I am currently camping in the Denver area, nights in the low teens but above freezing in the day. Because of Covid, the campground facilities are closed, of course, and I am discovering some issues, mostly water-related, that I hadn't thought about.

Bill