Ford Flex w/ Tow package, a 3023 and 575 # tongue weight

Hello! I have been a longtime lurker but this is my first post. I recently purchased a 2006 3023 with the thought that my 2013 Ford Flex Ecoboost with the tow package (4500 lbs total, 450lbs with weight distribution hitch) could tow it. The person I purchased it from claimed around 3,800 lbs wet (minus the onboard water tanks being full) and the local scales confirmed that number. Unfortunately the tongue weight, according to my Sherline 1,000 lb tongue weight scale, is when loaded with (2) Interstate Deep cycle batteries and (2) full propane tanks a staggering 575 lbs! We took it to a local shop to verify the weight and they came up with the same #, 575, so I am confident it is accurate.

Now we are in the scenario of either purchasing a new tow vehicle or of selling the trailer and trying to find a lighter one (we'll weight it with my new scale before closing the deal this time!). With ignorance of the tongue weight we did tow it from Salt Lake to Phoenix with no issues. We tinkered with the WD hitch when we picked it up, getting back 75% of the squat on the rear tires and nearly 100% on the front tires. Those WD hitches are amazing! But, as I understand from reading on the boards, the WD still doesn't change the fact that I exceeded the tongue weight that my vehicle is rated by quite a bit.

When we removed both batteries and both tanks we were able to get the tongue weight right at 450ish but, by putting them in our TV, we then had only 40 lbs for passengers and gear so that won't work.

Any ideas on any clever redistribution of weight strategies or must I face the laws of physics? :-)

Thanks so much! These forums have been an amazing source of information!!!

I know I'm going to get blasted for this, but..... I think a lot depends on towing conditions. I tow a 3023 as well, and I tow with a minivan. I travel really light, but I'm sure it weighs around 4000, like everyone here states. I use a WDH. My van, a Chevy uplander, tows amazingly well. I drive on relatively flat terrain, so I feel comfortable with my setup. I do have the full towing package, and everything still checks out fine with my van. I wouldn't worry.

I should add total combined weight of trailer and TV is about 300 lbs under the total allowed.

I plan on towing it in the Rockies most of its life so I'll be up high at times and on more than my fair share of mountains.

I'm considering an Expedition, 600 # tongue weight w/o a WD hitch, 900 with one, and lots and lots of extra TV+trailer capacity vs my Flex.

To your point it did tow effortlessly, about a 1 mpg hit to my mileage and the car never felt strained. Power was excellent, we sat at 55-60 all the way home and, had I never weighed it, I'd never have thought twice about hauling it all over the place. But...now that I know I am way over, I'm not so comfortable hauling it around.

[Redtail Cruiser]

Hi Sauropod,

Welcome to the forum and we all started out as "Lurkers".

The Expedition is a very capable vehicle, but if you like your Flex I would look into upgrading it's capability first before trading it or your TM. You should do some research on the rear suspension and see what kind of upgrade you could do. Adjustable shocks or airbags come to mind. Might not be enough, but combined with a heavier duty WDH, could get you to your weight capacity. That certainly sounds less expensive than upgrading a tow vehicle or down grading your trailer IMHO

Good luck and keep us posted

I have the Fastway e2 WDH FA92-00-0600 (etrailer.com) which is rated up to 6k and 600# tongue weight. It works admirably. I have bounced around on the 'net looking for upgrades to the Flex but, thus far, I have located nothing that I am confident in actually working. The trailer doesn't sag the car, two separate trailer places have looked at my hitch setup and say it is flat, doing its job, but both said my weak point is the weight on the hitch itself. I'm not sure how to beef that up on a unibody plaftorm like the Flex.

You hit it on the head about downgrading the trailer though. My CEO (ie. the wife) has, to quote her, "grown attached" to the 3023 which is code for "we aren't getting rid of it" :-) so I am keen to learn of upgrades to the Flex that could get me to almost 600 lbs on the tongue.

I have read, I believe, all of the towing forum comments and two camps emerged, the "it'll work even if one is over, just drive cautiously" camp and the "limits are put in place by engineers and you want a vehicle that will, ideally, give a buffer to those limits". The argument for the former is "as long as one drives carefully all is well" (presuming 575 lbs on my tongue will do no harm, I'm do not know if that is true or not on the Flex) and for the latter tis "might as well be safer than sorry, tow with excess capacity (versus on the edge) and you'll have a better experience". I think I'd be ok even if it was 490 lbs on a 450 lb weight but 575 is just so much over it scares me.

I was shocked at the tongue weight, is that normal for a 3023? It is about 18% of the total trailer weight.

Thanks again everyone!

[Redtail Cruiser]

Found this thread in our "search" tool .there are many others as well

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=12552

Sorry wrong link,here is the right one.


http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=10652

[ShrimpBurrito]

Sauropod -

A few comments -- first, your tongue weight is right on the money, and it in fact will go up even more once you are fully packed for camping. The higher tongue weight is a result of the axle being a bit further back than on my campers, which reduces the chance of sway.

Second, air bags, springs, and a heavier WDH will do nothing to improve your situation. Absolutely nothing. The TM, the Flex, and the contents of both weigh a certain amount. Eliminating weight with the addition of any of those things would violate the laws of physics, as you implied, and in fact, only the WDH can transfer the weight anywhere. But transferring weight off the hitch means it goes to the TM axle, which is already near it's max, and to the front axle of your Flex, which you don't have the capacity for.

Perhaps if you were driving through Kansas 100% of the time, there might be a place for a discussion about doing something to make your setup borderline safe. Maybe. But you are towing in the Rockies, which, outside of Alaska, is probably the most demanding towing environment in the U.S. My TV, a Toyota Sequoia, is a V8 with a tow capacity of ~5,500 lbs, and at times while towing in the Sierras, parts of which are like the Rockies, there is no way I'd want to tow the TM there with anything less than what I have. And that's only with 2 adults and a dog, plug water, food, beer, firewood, camp chairs, propane, etc. I was astonished at how quickly it all added up.

I think you already know the answer to your question. Based on what appears to be some informed research and forethought, you are uncomfortable with your current setup. I think that is a very reasonable assessment. Furthermore, you think you need to do something -- either buy a smaller camper or a more capable TV. I also think that is a very reasonable assessment. When we bought our TM, I found myself in the exact same position as you (but with a slightly more capable TV), and decided to get a larger TV. Yes, it was more expensive, but driving to/from your campsite while white-knuckled is not how want to spend what is supposed to be a relaxing weekend.

Take note that I have seen many canvas-style pop-up campers that weight just as much as a TM, and some even MORE. And even with the really smaller ones, it will be tight. We towed a 1,500-lb (dry weight, probably 2,500 wet) pop-up fully loaded with 4 adults in a Jeep Cherokee, and while I felt safe, I felt we had reached the limit.

The Flex sounds like a great camping vehicle -- if you were tent camping. Just my 2 cents....

Dave

[davlin]

ShrimpBurrito (Dave) has it right. All you can do now is upgrade your TV, or downgrade your trailer. Folks (even experienced trailer-pullers) often overlook the tongue weight restriction, instead focusing on the total weight of the trailer versus the "towing capacity" of the TV. The good engineers at Ford figured the strength of your hitch, with WDH, to be 450 lbs., and you'll not likely get that 3023 under that number. There will also be folks, even in this forum, who will tell you "I towed a _______ with a _______ (fill in the blanks) for years, and never had any problems." You might have the same experience with your Flex and 3023. But I would always be wondering what's going on with my TV frame and receiver and whether I'm just one good "bump" away from a catastrophe. Please let us know how you resolve this.

Dave, what are you doing in England?

The Other Dave

[Redtail Cruiser]

The Daves' are right in that your Flex has a ClassIII hitch and they are only rated for 500# max. without a WDH. Does your Flex tow package have a trailer brake controller? If not, and you decide to keep it, you will need to install one. As Dave mentioned there are plenty of TM owners that tow their 3023's with smaller TV's than a Flex, so it comes down to your comfort level. You said that your primary camping will be in the Rockies, so you will most likely not want to be under equipped. Lastly you might inquire into retrofitting a ClassIV hitch, which would solve the tongue weight issue. Your Ecoboost has plenty of HP with 365 and 350# of torque, but if you're stretching the limits of your total capacity, it may be time to get a larger TV.

Good luck with your decision

Tim and the Daves,

Thank you so much for the responses!

Tim, thanks for the links! I used the link and, despite my best Excel wizardry techniques, I couldn't make the Flex and the 3023 fit. I wish I had known about tongue weight before starting the adventure, I suppose I am like most people and just looked at Total Weight of Car + Trailer and their individual max weights. I installed a brake controller when I purchased the WDH (thanks to Ford it was plug in play once I figured it the plug had a cover installed on it that just looked like it was meant to receive something...hahahaha that was embarrassing!). I'll do some class IV research but the Big Boss, after reading the thread, she is already picking out the options she wants on an Expedition...

Dave ShrimpBurrito we ended up with the TM after seeing the weights of the pop-ups that were out there. We were astounded at how heavy the ones with the features we wanted were yet lacked the hard sides of the TM! White-knuckled is now how I'd feel if I were to to tow it anywhere at all. I know every sound would put me on edge.

The Other Dave (love that signature!) you hit it on the head about worrying. Funny you mention "bump" as this morning I noticed the threads of the bolts on the driver's side of the L bracket of the WDH had moved about 3/8" and had etched the thread pattern into the trailer tongue. I had used a torque wrench to the hitches specifications when I tied them down. That tells me I've got too much weight for sure (or a bad torque wrench :-)).

On a positive note we've been using it in our side yard. The kids think it is their new clubhouse!

I am thinking of adding a new topic about learning the hard way about using a 100' extension cord for shore power that was 14 gauge. It would power everything until I'd kick the AC on. The AC would spin up for a moment then turn off. The fan, the lights, everything else would work, just not the AC. After going through all the breakers and fuses and reading lots of posts I finally purchased a 10 gauge cord. It has worked like a champ ever since. Later that evening, while reading the owner's manual, I found it clearly states to use a 10 gauge wire.

The other shocker was when we did use it camping at a non-facilities site my kids were dismayed to learn the outlets wouldn't recharge their electronics like they did when plugged into shorepower. I initially thought something must be wrong but have come to learn that the outlets only work when hooked up to shore power and that I'll need an inverter to run plugged-in devices otherwise.