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Old 10-12-2003, 12:51 PM   #1
RockyMtnRay
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Default Gonna replace my Cherokee with a Tundra

My 96 Cherokee (4.0 liter, 190 hp I-6, 5 spd manual tranny, 3.07 axle) has been a so-so tow vehicle. Even with the short wheelbase (100 inches) I've not experienced any sway pulling my TM (even meeting semis on 2-lane roads with crosswinds) and I can stay with traffic if the grades are under 4% (even at elevations of 6,000 to 11,000). But on long climbs, it tends to run warm (has std radiator) and I will invariably be down to 2nd gear at 35 mph when climbing grades that get into the 6% to 8% range. I haven't yet experienced any control problems on steep (8%) tightly curving descents, but can't help but wonder how much margin of control I have in descending hairpin corners with the rather short wheelbase. Jeep rates the Cherokee for 5000 lbs total/750 lbs hitch with the automatic; until recently I hadn't seen any numbers for the manual tranny (assumed 80% of the automatic). Then last week I found a footnote on one Cherokee oriented website that said the limit with the manual tranny is 2000 lbs. Eeep! I haven't detected any clutch or tranny issues, but I am beginning to get signs the engine is getting combustion chamber carbon buildups from sustained full throttle operations.

And then last week I got a copy of the Mountain Directory West (http://www.mountaindirectory.com/) and had a real sinking feeling when I realized how many looooooong 7% to 10% grades there are here in the various western states. As currently geared and radiator-ed, I don't think I could handle even a long 7% grade, and definitely not a 10% (or higher grade).

So I concluded that even if I replace the radiator and differential gears I'll still have the short wheelbase and a clutch/transmission combo that's probably not designed for the towing weights I'm at. Clearly I gotta get properly geared (3.9 axle) mid-sized truck (at least about 130 inch wheelbase) with at least a 240 HP V8. (The true full size trucks in extended cab form don't fit in my garage). That meant Tundra or Dakota...on paper very similar power train, length, towing (6300 for the Dakota, 6900 for the Tundra), etc.

I went out and test-drove comparable Tundra and Dakota extended cab 4X4 V8 models yesterday....liked the Tundra's smoothness and aplomb on twisting mountain roads a whole lot more (compared them on a 3 mile long, very curvaceous 6% grade climbing from 6200 to 7400).

If I can find a properly equipped 2003, I'll be buying within the next week or so; otherwise I'll wait until around May of next year and order a 2004 equipped exactly as I want it. I've already ascertained that several Toyota dealers around the area have a few 2003 models with at least what I want equipment wise.

Has anyone got any experience and thoughts about using internet buying services like Carsdirect.com or Autobytel.com to nail a final price instead of trying to negotiate on your own with the dealers?
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Old 10-12-2003, 03:03 PM   #2
mjlaupp
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Default Re:Gonna replace my Cherokee with a Tundra

Ray,
I don't understand the short wheelbase stability problem. I always thought that the tow vehicle wheelbase should be short in comparison to the trailer. I have never liked to back a short trailer with a long wheelbase TV. I would think that you would want a short wheelbase for twisty roads.
MJL
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Old 10-12-2003, 03:14 PM   #3
Windbreaker
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Default Re:Gonna replace my Cherokee with a Tundra

Longer wheel base = smother ride and some say greatly improved handling. Backing may well be another story, don't know.
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Old 10-12-2003, 04:10 PM   #4
kdbell
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Default Re:Gonna replace my Cherokee with a Tundra

We are interested in your TV thoughts. My wife and I are just in the market for a TM (2027SL, 3023, or 3124KS) and I am collecting various owners thoughts about various TVs. I want to have adequate power to negotiate reasonable grades (6-8%) safely since we live in Virginia and camp in Western NC, VA, and WVA, but I don't want to over buy the TV and end up with one that is too thirsty to afford to feed when I'm not towing. By the way, what model TM do you have?
DK
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Old 10-12-2003, 04:16 PM   #5
Robin
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Default Re:Gonna replace my Cherokee with a Tundra

I bought a new Tundra in April after my '95 4-Runner died. I am so happy with it. It pulls my 2720SL effortlessly. I never thought I could fall in love with an engine before.
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Old 10-12-2003, 04:44 PM   #6
kdbell
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Default Re:Gonna replace my Cherokee with a Tundra

Many thanks for the come back.
DK
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Old 10-12-2003, 04:59 PM   #7
Denny_A
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Default Re:Gonna replace my Cherokee with a Tundra

[quote author=kdbell link=board=20;threadid=1436;start=msg10091#msg1009 1 date=1065996650]
We are interested in your TV thoughts. My wife and I are just in the market for a TM (2027SL, 3023, or 3124KS) and I am collecting various owners thoughts about various TVs. I want to have adequate power to negotiate reasonable grades (6-8%) safely since we live in Virginia and camp in Western NC, VA, and WVA, but I don't want to over buy the TV and end up with one that is too thirsty to afford to feed when I'm not towing. By the way, what model TM do you have?
DK
[/quote]

Being unaware of whether your question is in regard to either new or used, here's my input on used -- $21,000- 24,000 range.

A 2001 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4x4 or 2001 Nissan Pathfinder would work nicely. My recently acquired 2000 4Runner 4x4 is getting 16 mpg avg towing a 2720SL. Also the trailerless hiway mpg is in the 21+ category. The 2001 4Runner has the same engine as my 2000.

OTOH, the Pathfinder has higher power output, but fuel economy didn't thrill the folks who rated the vehicle on edmunds.com. Also, the rear seats don't fold flat in the Pathfinder, but do in the 4Runner. My dog cast the swing vote for the 4Runner!

Denny_A
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Old 10-12-2003, 05:24 PM   #8
kdbell
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Default Re:Gonna replace my Cherokee with a Tundra

Again, Thanks for the input. Do you have a choice between the Toyota or the Nissan and do you need the 4X4 or does a 2WD work?
DK
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Old 10-12-2003, 06:20 PM   #9
Windbreaker
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Default Re:Gonna replace my Cherokee with a Tundra

2 or 4 wheel drive is purely a lifestyle question.

Do you enjoy getting off the road? Do you have dreams of fording streams, rivers, mud holes? Do you like bouncing over big rocks? Do you hope to find that special place where you can see the world with no one else around?
If you answered yes to any of the above go for the 4 wheel drive and higher ground clearance. There is a price for those dreams, higher gas bills.

There is also one other thing to consider, snow. If you drive on snow or ice a lot in day to day use the 4 wheel drive is a world above the other. Oh, I forgot, the 4x4 sure works better for pulling stumps from the field - just in case you do that sort of thing.
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Old 10-12-2003, 06:32 PM   #10
efelker
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Default Re:Gonna replace my Cherokee with a Tundra

Ray:

One internet service is a little different than most. In this case they use a handful of dealers where you go to pick it up. Take a look at www.carmax.com . Thsy do have Tundras.

Closest to you is Milwaukee & Chicago. From what I can see, their prices are about 2 to 3K under MSRP and about $400 - $800 under invoice. If that's too far to go to pickup, what you might do is use their quote to get you a good local price. It's the old, "Can you better this deal?" approach.

Let me know what you think.

Ed
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