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Old 12-04-2011, 07:20 AM   #11
brulaz
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Years ago I overloaded my pickup with a camper. We added an extra leaf to the rear springs to level it. A year or two later a rear axle bearing went, luckily at low speeds, and that rear axle slid out from the housing.

I agree with about everyone else here. You have not increased your payload capacity, or the truck's GVWR or GAWR's, by upgrading the suspension alone. Some of your other upgrades will certainly help, but there are many items that need to be considered, including a heavier duty rear axle with heavier bearings.

If you are only occasionally carrying over-weight loads for short distances, then there may be no problem with the airbags. Who knows how over-engineered the truck is?

But for longer trips with your trailer, a WDH is a much better leveling solution, as it actually removes weight from the rear axle, the weakest point. And the air bags may still be useful to stiffen the truck's suspension while towing with the WDH.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:22 AM   #12
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I have used my system for 8 years. Probably use it 6 times per year for carrying heavy loads. The manufacturer offers this description:

Enjoy the smooth ride with sport-Rite air helper springs. These revolutionary air springs were developed to maintain a level vehicle while offering the best possible ride characteristics under any load condition.

Maximize your vehicle's suspension performance with Firestone air helper springs. Sport-Rite air helper springs utilize a tapered style air spring that will support up to 3,000 lbs. per set. With dynamic ride characteristics, hauling and towing control are vastly improved. Make your vehicle a total performer with Firestone Sport-Rite air helper springs.

Sport-Rite air helper springs can also be installed on most light trucks, SUVs and vans. Sport-Rite air helper springs are installed between the frame of the vehicle and the suspension, providing load support through the use of air pressure. Each application is specifically designed to maximize the safe load carrying capacity, stability, and ride quality of the vehicle.

Just to clarify, For my needs, I do not use a WDH when just towing the TM. When I load the motorcycle in the truck bed, I use the airbags. When I carry the MC and tow the TM at the same time, I use the airbags, and a WDH.


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Old 12-04-2011, 09:53 AM   #13
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I guess I am always cautious about glowing advertising statements by someone who wants to sell you something. They may not actually lie to you, but they will mislead to beat the band.

Things like "...best possible ride characteristics under any load condition" are meaningless. In a truck, the ride feels better with any heavy load in the back, simply because the inertia of the load smooths out small bumps. If "ride characteristics" means "your headlights won't point into the sky", then I guess that is right. But that is not what you are trying to do.

Similarly, the statement "... air helper springs are installed between the frame of the vehicle and the suspension, providing load support through the use of air pressure." is also meaningless. Of course it supports the load - but as has been said by several members, it does not reduce the load, and the total load (or overload) is still supported by the bearings/wheels/tires, all of which are heavily stressed and can fail due to overloading.

But I have a feeling I'm not being any more convincing than any of the other posts.

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Old 12-04-2011, 01:35 PM   #14
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So what I hear everyone saying (to include rvcycleguy) is that the airbags do increase the maximum weight he can carry in the bed of his truck while maintaining a level appearance to his truck. The truck being level may provide better handling.
The airbags don NOT increase his total weight capacity. His gross weight limit is still the same as it was before. That glowing advertisement from someone who wants to sell a product never claims to increase anything...meerly to maximize or optimize the performance when underload.
What I take from all of this...the use of airbags is controversial and a personal preference. However, I think we all agree that as long as you don't attempt to overload (carry more than a vehicle is rated to carry) then you are okay with, or without, airbags.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
I guess I am always cautious about glowing advertising statements by someone who wants to sell you something. They may not actually lie to you, but they will mislead to beat the band.

Things like "...best possible ride characteristics under any load condition" are meaningless. In a truck, the ride feels better with any heavy load in the back, simply because the inertia of the load smooths out small bumps. If "ride characteristics" means "your headlights won't point into the sky", then I guess that is right. But that is not what you are trying to do.

Similarly, the statement "... air helper springs are installed between the frame of the vehicle and the suspension, providing load support through the use of air pressure." is also meaningless. Of course it supports the load - but as has been said by several members, it does not reduce the load, and the total load (or overload) is still supported by the bearings/wheels/tires, all of which are heavily stressed and can fail due to overloading.

But I have a feeling I'm not being any more convincing than any of the other posts.

Bill
Bill:
I remember you saying in one of your posts that the tow vehicle you have is marginal for towing in the mountains.
My 5.2L V8 automatic is also on the marginal side pulling on the grades so I need some advice. This is what I was thinking of doing this coming summer if I do not have a bigger TV by then. Not using the WDH (weighs a ton) dropping off one of the batteries plus the extra propane tank and carrying no water maybe even taking the aluminum topper off and then having air shocks put on. Also keeping everything within cargo limits including the hitch weight. Now I am looking at some 5.9L V8 automatic trucks to replace mine as I do not want to pull the heart out of it but just in case do you think that is a viable temporary solution? The next TV will be my last so I will not be jumping at anything just because it is there.

Bob

Anyone else please feel free to jump in!
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Old 12-04-2011, 04:51 PM   #16
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My original response regarding using caution with air bags was prompted by this comment which is incorrect.
"It's listed as a 1/2 ton truck but when you put several hundred pounds of stuff in the truck bed, it does weigh it down some. I wanted to add more carrying capacity and the air bags, from my info, suggest that it increases the load to 3/4 ton."
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happybeebob View Post
Bill:
I remember you saying in one of your posts that the tow vehicle you have is marginal for towing in the mountains.
My 5.2L V8 automatic is also on the marginal side pulling on the grades so I need some advice. This is what I was thinking of doing this coming summer if I do not have a bigger TV by then. Not using the WDH (weighs a ton) dropping off one of the batteries plus the extra propane tank and carrying no water maybe even taking the aluminum topper off and then having air shocks put on. Also keeping everything within cargo limits including the hitch weight. Now I am looking at some 5.9L V8 automatic trucks to replace mine as I do not want to pull the heart out of it but just in case do you think that is a viable temporary solution? The next TV will be my last so I will not be jumping at anything just because it is there.

Bob

I agree that reducing some of the weight by removing "stuff" is a step in right direction, however, I would not skip the WDH as it will do more good than the weight it reduces.

Anyone else please feel free to jump in!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumbleweed View Post
My original response regarding using caution with air bags was prompted by this comment which is incorrect.
"It's listed as a 1/2 ton truck but when you put several hundred pounds of stuff in the truck bed, it does weigh it down some. I wanted to add more carrying capacity and the air bags, from my info, suggest that it increases the load to 3/4 ton."
As stated many times before, IT WILL NOT INCREASE ANYTHING. It will just make your vehicle "LOOK" like it can handle the extra weight.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:35 PM   #18
Bill
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happybeebob posted
Quote:
... Not using the WDH (weighs a ton)
Saves maybe 40 pounds above the weight of a non-WDH hitch. But a pair of air shocks, plus all the bracket, bolts, and so forth - weighs MORE than this. So tell me again about the savings?

All of the other weight savings - battery, propane, water - are not related to the tradeoff between air bags and a WDH. You can do them either way.

Quote:
... and then having air shocks put on.
Let me make this plain. In my opinion, NO AIR BAGS!! That's the entire point of this whole thread. Air bags are a net loss in performance. Air bags allow you to stress your suspension, while thinking you are doing a good thing. And using air bags instead of a WDH gives you a net gain in total weight.
Quote:
The next TV will be my last so I will not be jumping at anything just because it is there.
The following is my opinion only! I am also coming up on my last tow vehicle, and I am loooking hard at the new Ford Eco-boost twin turbo V-6. I like two things. First, it has a tow-haul mode, which keeps the torque converter locked, which in turn keeps the tranny cooler. Second, the turbo will make the engine think it is at sea-level, even when it is at 10,000 feet. Since engines lose 3% or 4% of their power for every 1000 feet of elevation, this is the secret to moving the vehicle from "marginal" to "pretty good!"

No air bags. Big letters - NO AIR BAGS!

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Old 12-04-2011, 06:36 PM   #19
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Hi All,
Here is an article I found and it relates well with the discussion!

In an interview with one of the Reese Hitch engineers at SEMA. Ideally when loaded the rear of your towing vehicle should only be one inch lower than the front measured inside the wheel well, that is before and after measurements of front fender and rear. On a front wheel drive SUV, you want to reverse that where the front will be an inch lower.
To be precise you may want to weigh your towing vehicle and trailer by axle to get your Gross Axle Weight Rating for the front and rear axles on both tow vehicle and trailer to see how well distributed the weight is.
In your tow vehicle if you look in the right side of the driver’s doorframe you'll see the Truck Safety Compliance Certification Label. On that label is your (GAWR) Gross Axle Weight Rating for you vehicle. A level load will allow all of your brakes, wheel bearings, springs and tires to help with the load. Also get your loaded tongue weight to complete the equation. This can be done by weighing your tow vehicle with the loaded trailer attached but only the tow vehicle on the scale. Then weigh your truck without the trailer. With these numbers you can see how much you need to adjust your spring bars of the WDH as well with the real world driving to tell you how well balanced your rig is and if the trailer pulls with little sway.
The GAWR can't be changed as with all the capacity maximum ratings. They are set by the manufacture and is considered the rule. If the rig pulls well, you are close to balanced. Since the GAWR can't be changed, use the spring bars to move weight between the tow vehicles axles. You can lift the spring bars on your WDH a notch before you weigh it again. Lifting the spring bar (trunion bar) will transfer some weight to the front axle. But if you move to much weight forward you can loose traction on the rear axle. So that's the adjustment you have to fine tune. You can add air shocks, or overload springs etc. if you want more support on the rear axle. None of that will though increase the capacity. But the WDH adjustment is the best thing to do for supporting the weight. Adding springs, shocks, air bags etc. doesn’t change the GAWR or any of the weight ratings. Which is why I believe the WDH is the best trailer tool. The axle ratings on the door tag is the maximum for each axle that you want to be under.
Using the trailer jack to lift up the trailer tongue can help when attaching the spring bars to the trailer tongue chains or brackets. The same thing can help take the pressure off the spring bars when un-hooking
Independent rear suspension on SUV's need WDH
Ford Excursion, 2500 Chevy Suburban, GMC Yukon 2500 XL, older Dodge Dakota and older Ford Explorer's have rear leaf springs like a full size truck. But the trend is the independent rear suspensions coming to SUV's such as late models of Ford Explorers, Expeditions, Mercedes ML320 and above, Lexus etc. They ride great but all that extra movement for the soft ride, will let a trailer move more. The coil spring suspensions found on most SUV's also allow more trailer sway. So I highly recommend using a WDH. The better ones are easy and fast to hook up. Watch the retired gray hairs pulling RV travel trailers. 80% of them will have a WDH. And their cargo doesn’t shift weight from one hoof to the other while swatting flies with it’s tail. Also another SUV that needs unique attention and a well tuned WDH is the Jeep Grand Cherokee. I see this vehicle towing a lot of trailers. It has the power with the V-8 but the short wheelbase and unibody construction makes this tow vehicle need proper setup for safe towing. I was driving next to one on I-70 last winter in a blizzard over Vail pass. It has pulling a 16 ‘ flat bed trailer with crate loaded too far forward. The trailer had a weight distributing hitch, as Cherokee’s need and was still squatting which was partly due to the load being too far forward and partly due to the bridging effect of the WD hitch putting leverage on the unibody of the Cherokee is not as effective as the leverage on a, (body on frame) system from what I see.
There are several good WD hitches available. I like Equal-i-zer because their hitch works as a Weight Distributing Hitch and Anti-sway bar all in one and they are one of the only ones that don't require holes drilled into the trailer hitch and they work with surge brakes like you find on boat trailers and some horse trailers. The Anti-sway system is incorporated into the spring arms as they drag across the L bracket on the trailer end and the hinged trunnions where they bolt to the head. This causes friction and slows down the reaction at the hitch. They hook up easy and fast without holes in the trailer hitch. The friction anti-sway bars that are an option on some WD hitches apply pressure with a sliding plate clamp system that aren't to be used in the rain or snow. During rain and snow you need anti-sway the most. Equal-i-zer WDH are a little over $500 so they aren't the cheapest or the most expensive, you can order direct from the manufacture or a lot of RV and trailer dealers sell them. I use mine on all the different trucks I test from Quadrasteer Suburban to Hummer H2. I'd be in trouble if I had to drill holes in all the trailers I borrow. A lot of bumper pull horse trailers have sheet metal across the V-hitch so you have to cut a small slit in the sheet metal for the brackets. Which is better than most WD hitches that have a wide clamp that is bolted or welded to the trailer frame for the spring bars to attach to with chains. Also instead of corrugated washers to adjust the angle of the head, Equal-i-zer uses a large solid pin with spacer adjustment that can't slip
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:35 PM   #20
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Default I love my air bags!

3 or 4 times a year, I tow my TM and carry my 650 lb ATV in the bed of my Tundra, I use a WDH with 1200 lb bars and was never able to get the truck to ride, handle or sit correctly for what I would call a safe ride. It was bouncy, rolly polly and the headlights pointed upward. The truck is not over loaded with the ATV, it's more of an issue of the the weight not being distributed properly and it presents a higher center of gravity, I have not been able to get the ATV into the back seat though, so.... enter AIR BAGS!

The AIR BAGS leveled the truck, firmed up the handling and enabled me to easily align the WDH as it should be. The difference was night and day. The combination of Bags and a WDH works very well for my truck. I LOVE THE AIR BAGS, they do not make your 1/2 ton a 3/4 ton or any silliness like that, but if you do not overload your truck simply because you can, the AIR BAGS have their place and make MY trips safer and more comfortable.

They have the same effect when I carry the ATV in the bed of the truck without the TM. An ATV presents a higher center of gravity back there, so you don't want any sag or bobbing about on the corners. I doubt there would be very few situations when you would need AIR BAGS on a heavier duty truck, and I don't think I would use them on a Ford Exploder either, that wouldn't make sense, but my TV benefits from them greatly. I assume it is softer sprung.

Another plus for me is that when I bring the TM to the house from storage and don't want to mess with the WDH for that short distance, the AIR BAGS are much better than nothing at all.

I don't know why people start going off on them like they are evil or something. Just like anything else, when used correctly and with a bit of common sense, they have their place and can be a VERY good thing. I repeat....I LOVE MY AIR BAGS!
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