17-days in Utah

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

Bob -

Is it possible your trial membership expired? New members have trial memberships for about the first 30 days, but after that, access is limited to just a handful of forums unless they pay a $12/yr membership fee used to offset costs of operating the board.

More info here:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...faq_membership

Dave

Hi Dave,

No I signed up with $$$ for a real membership. The problem may be because of pretty flaky WiFi service at this RV park. Because it gets so bad I am also using my cell phone tethered to my PC as a mobile broadband modem. I activated that service for this trip, it's not cheap but worth it when you needed it, at least for a Geek it is.

Maybe the TM Forum systems sees one or the other connection as SPAM, not sure. I will see if this post posts/acts normally, I am using my phone and NOT the park's WiFi.

Thanks Bill for your looking into this BUT please don't let it mess up any weekend plans you had. As I PM'd you, my posts are far less important than a good holiday with family and friends!

Cheers,

Bob.

Looks good Bill, I will let you know if it happens again, may be the parks WiFi is being ID'd as questionable connection or something.

Thanks!

Bob.

Testing using park WiFi...testing, testing, (clears throat), this is only a test

Nope wasn't the WiFi connection. The problem posts may have had something the forum content scanner didn't like.

Anyway, all seems fine, thanks again!

Bob.

Originally Posted by Mr Geek

They seem to work ok but from what I have seen they aren't made for freezing temps, which they should be in such a vulnerable location. Also because they can fail fairly easily and compromise the entire TM water system, it would be nice if there was an isolation shut off.

I'd forgotten about the outside shower assembly. That's good to know. But still no problems with the exposed drinking water drains?

Originally Posted by brulaz

I'd forgotten about the outside shower assembly. That's good to know. But still no problems with the exposed drinking water drains?

I just finished driving from Moab to Zion, boy oh boy what a huge difference. Moab was 6-degrees this morning and Zion was a balmy 35-degrees.

First let me say my TM's plumbing has froze during this trip but the water lines don't seem to become damaged by freezing. My Jeeping friend has an Alfa Cya and had some freezing issues too...it was brutally cold the last few days, even going BELOW ZERO the night befor last. But all in all a great learning experience that could be serious trouble if not expecting and planning for the worst.

During the single digit temps, to prevent my fresh water hose and TM plumbing from freezing I was allowing it flow, very slowly by leaving the bathtub cold water on, just enough to see water. I realize this is wasteful, but in such harsh temps I doubt the RV park minds much given that they had two geysers shooting up about 20-feet from broken (frozen) fresh water valves that blew off, that they didn't fix for two days.

I now realize this trickle flow is the only way to make sure you continue to have water in the TM in very cold below freezing temps. KEEPING WATER FLOWING through important pipes in super cold temps is critical to avoid being without running water in the TM.

Last night in preparing for leaving this morning I decided to stow the fresh water hose, filling one fresh water tank and planning on using inside water until departing, saving me one less thing to do. Well about an hour and a half later I went to use the faucet and NO PUMP, NO FLOW. At first I thought my pump broke but after thinking about it I surmised my plumbing must have froze because I no longer had the trickle flowing in the bathtub now that I was using onboard water and water pump...DOH!

Once that happens it's a big problem because you need to find the frozen pipe(s) and use a hair dryer to try to get them thawed BEFORE other pipes freeze too. A very nasty game of chasing the freezes in freezing temps...not fun.

I think one pipe prone to possibly freeze first is a main water line that passes through the fridge compartment. If you look at the lower fridge access compartment you will see a main water line very close to the outside wall/compartment vent/access panel. It doesn't take long for that line to freeze with no water flowing in it and that effects the entire TM, blocking flow to all other faucets.

Even with water flowing to prevent freezing, the hot water side of the bathtub froze but I was able to get it to flow by putting a small heater in the bathroom and turning on the exhaust fan. In under a half-hour hot water was flowing again.

Another unexpected freeze item was the bathtub drain. When I arrived in Zion this evening the bathtub would not drain. Again, a small heater in the bathroom and turning on the exhaust fan with some hot water in the tub finally broke it free.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO, bottom-line RVs aren't like houses in that they aren't designed to withstand sub-freezing temps for days at a time, even the best RVs will have problems. But I have learned a few things I can do to attempt to keep fresh water flowing in the TM in brutally cold temps and ways to deal with freeze issues when they occur.

Camping in freezing weather isn't an ideal situation BUT if you love the outdoors in ALL seasons I feel the TM can do it as well as other RVs can just as long as you keep in mind things that need to be done to avoid problems.

Long day and very happy to be in Zion on a nice balmy 33-degrees night as I type this...Cheers!

I've insulated all my pipes (household foam pipe insulation), at least where I can get to them. There are still some spots that worry me. Keeping cupboard doors open can help too.

And yes, the shower drain trap is another problem I hadn't thought about, as it loops out under the trailer. Pretty exposed. It might be possible to remove its protective cover and fill that with insulation ...

Anyway, thanks for all this. Sounds like you had an exciting/fun time.

[T and C]

Bob,

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks for posting it. I'm sure many others enjoyed it as well.

Many years ago I was stationed on an air force base near Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan in the Upper Penensula. Being a SoCal boy, it was a learning experience going through two Michigan winters. Here in SoCal we make the snow stay on the mountains where we can visit it when we want to play.

I have a memory of exposed pipes wrapped in some sort of black tape. It seems to have come in various widths. I'm sure the folks who live in cold areas know all about such things. Could one wrap insulation around the exposed pipes and the drain valves under the TM to avoid problems?

Tom

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Mr Geek

During the single digit temps, to prevent my fresh water hose and TM plumbing from freezing I was allowing it flow, very slowly by leaving the bathtub cold water on, just enough to see water.

I'm glad this worked - but I'm also surprised. Presumably the water flowing into the tub went down the tub drain, into the gray water tank, and then out through the Slinky hose and into the campground sewer connection? The thing I would worry about (and have experienced, in Grants, NM) is that some of the trickling water flow in the Slinky will freeze, gradually building up a layer of ice inside the hose. Eventually the ice builds up to the point where it totally blocks the hose - and then things get interesting.

When I did this in NM, the campground owner happened by as I was disconnecting the Slinky in hopes of finding a way to thaw it. He warned me not to pick up the hose, saying that a frozen hose is locally known as "horns", because it is common to see a camper with a frozen hose over his shoulders (looking like a longhorn), walking over to the dumpster. Why the dumpster? The plastic of the hose is very fragile, especially when cold, and any movement drives the ice through it and ruins the hose.

I won't mention whether I had horns that day.

And of course, once the drain hose freezes, the water backs up into the grey tank, and then into the tub, and (if you trickle long enough) onto the floor in the bathroom. Been there, too, though not as part of a freeze.

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill

I'm glad this worked - but I'm also surprised. Presumably the water flowing into the tub went down the tub drain, into the gray water tank, and then out through the Slinky hose and into the campground sewer connection? The thing I would worry about (and have experienced, in Grants, NM) is that some of the trickling water flow in the Slinky will freeze, gradually building up a layer of ice inside the hose. Eventually the ice builds up to the point where it totally blocks the hose - and then things get interesting.

When I did this in NM, the campground owner happened by as I was disconnecting the Slinky in hopes of finding a way to thaw it. He warned me not to pick up the hose, saying that a frozen hose is locally known as "horns", because it is common to see a camper with a frozen hose over his shoulders (looking like a longhorn), walking over to the dumpster. Why the dumpster? The plastic of the hose is very fragile, especially when cold, and any movement drives the ice through it and ruins the hose.

I won't mention whether I had horns that day.

And of course, once the drain hose freezes, the water backs up into the grey tank, and then into the tub, and (if you trickle long enough) onto the floor in the bathroom. Been there, too, though not as part of a freeze.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I can see how this could happen. I think my saving grace was the amount of time was only 4-days in such harsh temps and that I ran enough hot water that the sewer hose didn't build up with ice. I left my gray valve open and I also made certain to have a good, uniform slope on the hose using a hose support to eliminate low points.

BUT as I saw, once things start freezing, it's not long before other things start to freeze and then it's really bad news. I brought along three extra sewer hoses because I have read they are so fragile to freezing temps. Luckily the original is still hanging in there.

I wonder how effective the insulation for pipes is on multiple days of below freezing temps. It seems it would be good for overnight freezing temps with above freezing days, but I wonder how well it would work for multiple days with below freezing temps. Any insight/experience?

Bob.