The dream became a reality!

Hi Jim...

Thanks for the input!

I think you may have misinterpreted the "poor thing" remark!

This 1995 Ford F-150 belongs to my 90 year old Grandfather who is a retired farmer. He has recently developed Alzheimers and can no longer drive but his beloved truck still sits in the barn.

I said "poor thing" because this great truck has never been used to it's full potential. It was a like a horse that had never been ridden! It's a 1995 truck in "like new" condition. Someone is going to get one heck of a deal whenever my Grandmother decides to sell it. We can't buy it because it's just a regualr cab...no room for kids and dogs.

Garry and I were both raised to buy vehicles, baby them to death and drive them until the wheels fall off!

Hopefully we can find a good, used tow vehicle that has enough power to tow our TM anywhere we want to go.

Now that we are armed with all of this good information...I'm going to go look at some different trucks today. I feel like I'm much better prepared thanks to all of you!

[Civil_War_Buff]

Tami & Garry,

I am certain that if you like your TM half as much as I like mine, you will have a great time camping in it. Fortunate for us on the west coast, we can camp all year around. I have looked at the pics of yours and the rig looks great.

Enjoy,

Larry

Thanks Larry!

We're definitely jealous of your year round camping capabilities!! :'(

Windbreaker, sorry, but this site is located in an area that is extremely remote. The last 15 miles of the road going to the lake is forest road. Mostly dirt and very rocky, narrow and steep. Takes about 40 min to go the 15 miles. There is no electricity at the site. At this time the spring has gone dry so there is no water. Although you see where I parked in the picture, what you don't see is that it took me about 30 min to get parked. Part of that is because I was alone. I was alone because I wanted to get there early enough to get a spot. Deanna came up after getting off work. There are only 3 sites that our rig could fit into. No dump facilities in the area. I dump at home. This is a very pretty and remote site. You have to love it to endure getting there. Not hard, but very slow. Approx 5500 ft elevation change in around 60 miles from our house at 3500 ft.

If anyone wants more info just enter "Riggs Lake" in Google and you'll find more info.

Don't mean to discourage anyone, just want them to know what they are getting into before they start out.

Jim

> Bottom line: If you want long engine and transmission life...and the
> ability to successfully tackle 10 mile long 7% to 10% mountain grades
> in 90 degree heat...you need to think much more in terms of buying
> enough power and torque and make fuel economy a very secondary
> consideration. But take heart that you're not pulling a big box style
> tradtional travel trailer and feeling lucky to get 7 to 10 mpg!

> I took my own advice by the way...my new TV is Toyota Tundra
> pickup with a 4.7 Liter DOHC V8 that puts out a respectable 319
> lbs-feet of torque at 3200 RPM...and it has a 3.91 axle ratio to get
> that torque to the tires. And if I find that still isn't enough, I have
> the option of bolting on a supercharger that will add another 75
> lbs-feet of torque![/QUOTE]

OK, I am thinking about getting a Suburban. What engine is best? 5.3, 6.0 or 8.1. I live in New Mexico, so I need a TOW that is very happy in mountains towing a fully loaded 3124KB, 3 adults and 3 kids.

Thanks,
Lars

>>What engine is best? 5.3, 6.0 or 8.1.<<<
Anytime you're talking engines for pulling a trailer a diesel is always "best". They don't put them in semi's just because they sound cool. And the best of the best in my humble opinion is the Cummins found only in a Dodge. Not that Dodge would be my first choice in trucks but you can't go wrong with the cummins.

[Civil_War_Buff]

Hey Lars,

I agree with RJ in that a diesel is the absolute best for pulling grades, but if you are set on gas, I have the 5.3L in my Tahoe and on my trip to New Mexico last year with trips through the Gila NF, it was fine. I had 3 adults and a lot of gear in the back as well. I would suggest that you also consider the 5.7L as it has a little more HP if you wanted more.

Larry

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by lwhansen

> Bottom line: If you want long engine and transmission life...and the
> ability to successfully tackle 10 mile long 7% to 10% mountain grades
> in 90 degree heat...you need to think much more in terms of buying
> enough power and torque and make fuel economy a very secondary
> consideration. But take heart that you're not pulling a big box style
> tradtional travel trailer and feeling lucky to get 7 to 10 mpg!

> I took my own advice by the way...my new TV is Toyota Tundra
> pickup with a 4.7 Liter DOHC V8 that puts out a respectable 319
> lbs-feet of torque at 3200 RPM...and it has a 3.91 axle ratio to get
> that torque to the tires. And if I find that still isn't enough, I have
> the option of bolting on a supercharger that will add another 75
> lbs-feet of torque!

OK, I am thinking about getting a Suburban. What engine is best? 5.3, 6.0 or 8.1. I live in New Mexico, so I need a TOW that is very happy in mountains towing a fully loaded 3124KB, 3 adults and 3 kids.

Thanks,
Lars

Being the one who got quoted here, thought I'd chime in...

IMO, you need at least the 6.0 V8...and the highest numerical (ideally 4.10) axle ratio you can get in a 'burban. "Low" Axle ratios (high numerical) greatly improve towing (especially mountain towing) but have a tiny effect on gas mileage. The 8.1 would be nicely powerful but also likely a bit expensive to feed...the 6.0 with a high numerical axle should be more than adequate but a lot more economical. The 5.3 is a tad too small to use in mountain towing with that heavy a SUV plus passengers/cargo plus a 4000 lb (or so) trailer.

RealJeep is right that diesels are the kings of torque and having massive amounts of torque is the key to happy mountain towing. But, AFAIK, the only SUV with a diesel is the Ford Excursion and 2005 is the last year for Excursions. Chevy doesn't (yet) offer a diesel in any model of Suburban...apparently the Allison transmission used with the current Duramax diesel won't fit under the Suburban floorpan with sufficient ground clearance.

RealJeep is also right that the Cummins TurboDiesel is indeed a fine engine...and it seems to do great in mountain towing...but it's not available in any Dodge SUV. The biggest engine in the new Dodge Durango is the 5.3 Hemi and I have been very un-impressed with the Hemi's towing prowess in the mountains...it produces nearly all of its torque at about 5000 RPM...just below redline. So if the Hemi isn't kept at max RPM (hard to do for 10 continuous miles ), it's pretty gutless. On more than one occasion, my "rice burner" Toyota with a mere 4.7L engine has left a Ram pickup equipped with the mighty Hemi breathing my dust on a mountain grade.

P.S. I wrote the quoted material in the fall of '03...before I had done any towing with my Tundra. After a full season of towing, I can say that the stock truck (319 ft-lbs of torque at a relatively low 3400 RPM; 3.91 axle) was adequate for mountain towing of my 2720SL. By adequate, I mean I could maintain the posted speed limit on all grades (not stuck in the slow lane with the semis and big RVs)...but I had to really rev it up in 2nd gear to do this. The supercharger option turned out to be not an option (long story). So I went the traditional route of exhaust headers and freeer flowing muffler...and had the axles regeared to a 4.30 ratio. The combination of now getting about 350 ft-lbs out of the engine and the 10% gearing change has made mountain towing downright enjoyable...the truck is now way more than adequate for mountain towing and can pull nearly all grades in 3rd gear.

Originally Posted by RockyMtnRay

Being the one who got quoted here, thought I'd chime in...

IMO, you need at least the 6.0 V8...and the highest numerical (ideally 4.10) axle ratio you can get in a 'burban. "Low" Axle ratios (high numerical) greatly improve towing (especially mountain towing) but have a tiny effect on gas mileage. The 8.1 would be nicely powerful but also likely a bit expensive to feed...the 6.0 with a high numerical axle should be more than adequate but a lot more economical. The 5.3 is a tad too small to use in mountain towing with that heavy a SUV plus passengers/cargo plus a 4000 lb (or so) trailer.

RealJeep is right that diesels are the kings of torque and having massive amounts of torque is the key to happy mountain towing. But, AFAIK, the only SUV with a diesel is the Ford Excursion and 2005 is the last year for Excursions. Chevy doesn't (yet) offer a diesel in any model of Suburban...apparently the Allison transmission used with the current Duramax diesel won't fit under the Suburban floorpan with sufficient ground clearance.

RealJeep is also right that the Cummins TurboDiesel is indeed a fine engine...and it seems to do great in mountain towing...but it's not available in any Dodge SUV. The biggest engine in the new Dodge Durango is the 5.3 Hemi and I have been very un-impressed with the Hemi's towing prowess in the mountains...it produces nearly all of its torque at about 5000 RPM...just below redline. So if the Hemi isn't kept at max RPM (hard to do for 10 continuous miles ), it's pretty gutless. On more than one occasion, my "rice burner" Toyota with a mere 4.7L engine has left a Ram pickup equipped with the mighty Hemi breathing my dust on a mountain grade.

P.S. I wrote the quoted material in the fall of '03...before I had done any towing with my Tundra. After a full season of towing, I can say that the stock truck (319 ft-lbs of torque at a relatively low 3400 RPM; 3.91 axle) was adequate for mountain towing of my 2720SL. By adequate, I mean I could maintain the posted speed limit on all grades (not stuck in the slow lane with the semis and big RVs)...but I had to really rev it up in 2nd gear to do this. The supercharger option turned out to be not an option (long story). So I went the traditional route of exhaust headers and freeer flowing muffler...and had the axles regeared to a 4.30 ratio. The combination of now getting about 350 ft-lbs out of the engine and the 10% gearing change has made mountain towing downright enjoyable...the truck is now way more than adequate for mountain towing and can pull nearly all grades in 3rd gear.

Thank you. Your experience is invaluable! Now I am convinced that I need the 6.0 or greater, that means getting a Suburban 2500, and since I want 4x4, it means a K2500. I think it is hard to be picky about axle ratio, when buying used. I have done a national wide search for K2500's, and have only found about 10 of them with low miles in my price range (cars.com, autotrader and eBay). Do you have any idea how much it costs to upgrade the axle to a 4.1? It is hard to find a place that can do the upgrade?

Lars

I don't mean to tell you your business but if you get a 4x4 and change the rearend gearing you will have to change the front end and the transmission also. It might be cheaper to spring for the new. I kinda looked into this some time back and went new.