The dream became a reality!

Eileen and Tom...we aren't too far from Cincy (about an hour and 15 min). We live Bellbrook, OH which is just southeast of Dayton. I guess Plapp's Pro Outdoors (In Erlanger, KY) is our closest dealer. They were very nice. They had two 2003 models on the lot when we were there...a 2720SL and a 3124KS. They are getting ready to expand though and the owner said they would be carrying more models in the future.

Bill...what you said about the V-8 makes sense. We do want to venture out now that we have the TrailManor. We have lots of family in California and would like to make some trips out there. I guess we were thinking if a V-6 would be more fuel efficient but it would be "false economy" if the TV couldn't do what we needed it to do. :-\

Good point. Thanks.

[spoutman]

Tami & Garry,

I did the same thing as you did. I purchased the TrailManor in Indiana across the river from Louisville. I had to have a friend of mine to tow it home. Then I had to hitch up the Trailmanor to my Ford Ranger to position it on the pad behind my house. I stumbled upon the Dodge at the right price with the tow package and sold my Ranger. The Dodge pulls the TrailManor with no effort. It is nice to have the power when you need it. My gas milage is approx 3/4 of a mile per gallon less than my city milage without the TrailManor. I have taken mine as far as Mt. Pleasant Iowa and Oshkosh Wisconsin running right with other traffic. Another suggestion. The prodigy brake controller is great and it you look you can find them for around $100.00. BTW I am on the westside of Cincinnati.

Spoutman

[RockyMtnRay]

Let me add a few thoughts to what Bill has said about the tow vehicle power issue. I live in Colorado and regularly tow a 2720 over high altitude Rocky Mtn passes. For the past 2 camping seasons my TV was a Jeep Cherokee with a 4.0 Liter, 190 HP engine that put out 220 lbs-feet of torque. I bring up torque because this is a far more important measure of a TV's engine's ability to tow a trailer than is its horsepower. The Jeep engine, though larger and more powerful (in terms of torque) than nearly all V6s available was severely hobbled by a 3.07 rear axle ratio (great for fuel economy and quiet highway cruising but horrible for towing) and insufficient radiator cooling capability. The bottom line is that poor Jeep's engine was working its heart out (I had the gas pedal floored an awful lot of the time) pulling my 2720 through the mountains...and your 3023, when loaded, will be at least several hundred pounds heavier than my TM.

I've done a lot of TV vehicle investigation this fall and reached several conclusions about what you need in a good TV for mountain towing.

First, the number of cylinders in the engine really aren't important....what is important is its maximum torque rating...and that that maximum occurs at around 3000 RPM where it can actually be used. The minimum value for torque is 300 lbs-feet if you want to successfully tow in the mountains. To get to that torque, you realistically need an engine somewhere in the 5 Liter (300 cubic inch) size range give or take about .5 Liter...which basically means having a V8 as few, if any, 5 or 6 cylinder engines are made that large. Incidentally, an engine's horsepower rating is semi-meaningless for towing since horsepower is usually measured very near the engine's red-line RPM. Running an engine near the red-line RPM for an extended period (like towing up a long grade) will drastically shorten its life. In addition, a real easy way for automotive engineers to up the horsepower on an engine is to raise the red-line RPM by a thousand RPM or so...but it's still the same engine making the same maximum torque!

The 2nd most important factor in the TV drivetrain is the rear axle ratio. What you want is a rear axle ratio that puts the engine at its maximum torque at typical safe towing speeds (roughly 60 to 65 mph) when the transmission is running in Drive without Overdrive (towing in O/D is extremely hard on automatic transmissions). A rear axle ratio somewhere between 3.73 and 3.9 meets this requirement. Generally such an axle ratio is part of a towing package. By comparison, most vehicles today are equipped with 3.07 to 3.3 axles because those lower gear ratios (paradoxically known as "higher geared" (as in higher speed)) produce noticeably better fuel economy (typically 2 to 3 mpg better).

Finally, and of roughly equal importance to the axle ratio, is having plenty of cooling capacity for both the engine and the transmission. That means a heavy duty radiator and a separate transmission cooler. Both are normally part of towing packages.

Bottom line: If you want long engine and transmission life...and the ability to successfully tackle 10 mile long 7% to 10% mountain grades in 90 degree heat...you need to think much more in terms of buying enough power and torque and make fuel economy a very secondary consideration. But take heart that you're not pulling a big box style tradtional travel trailer and feeling lucky to get 7 to 10 mpg!

I took my own advice by the way...my new TV is Toyota Tundra pickup with a 4.7 Liter DOHC V8 that puts out a respectable 319 lbs-feet of torque at 3200 RPM...and it has a 3.91 axle ratio to get that torque to the tires. And if I find that still isn't enough, I have the option of bolting on a supercharger that will add another 75 lbs-feet of torque!

Spoutman...

I'm so glad we weren't the only ones who put the "Cart before the horse"...so to speak. We wanted this TrailManor and I was determined to find a way to get it home. Like I said...Grandpa's pickup worked just fine. The poor thing is a 1995 with 37,000 miles on it. I'm quite sure it's never been out of Greene County, drivin more than 50 mph or towed anything heavier than an empty hay wagon....let alone a trip to Chicago going 70 mph, towing 3,000 lbs with the radio blaring! haha We blew some cobwebs out of that old girl!

Ray...

Wow! You have WAY surpassed me on engine knowledge. Garry is going to have to get on here and read your last response. It all sounded good though!

Thanks!

[BOB_STRONG]

Tammi & Gary,

Yes, you sure did get it at a bargain price. The Trailmanor sure looked in immaculate condition from the pictures on RVtraderonline. You sure were lucky to find it. I think you got such a price because the dealer just wanted to get rid of it since he knew nothing about Trailmanors. I couldn't believe that there were 2 hanging cabinets in the unit. Nice idea. Any other Trailmanor dealer would have killed to get a used unit like that. Where we bought our Trailmanor, they can't get any used ones in. People are always calling to see if they have any. This guy sure missed the boat!!! His loss was your gain.

I agree with everyone else about the V8. I have the 3326 King and I am glad that I bought my Durango with a 360 V8 and the towing package. With all of the mountains we have in Pa,, the V8 comes in handy. Also the rear end is a 3:90 which is good for towing. Even though I have the V8, I still get good gas mileage pulling our Trailmanor.

Bob Strong

Hi Bob...

I'm glad you think we did alright! That makes us feel good from someone who knows TrailManors.
You're probably right about the dealer...he probably just wanted to get rid of it. The employees sure liked it though! The young guy who did our orientation ( I think I knew more than he did about it) just loved it!

We actually just set it up in our driveway for the first time. It was so easy!!! We've been out there cleaning the road grunge off a few places but it's really immaculate.

It's funny you should mention that cabinet over the stove. When we went in this TrailManor for the first time, I told Garry something wasn't right. I told him the cabinet over the stove didn't match the others. The guys all told me I was crazy but I knew. Sure enough...I found a receipt where the original owner had sent off for cabinet brackets from the factory. I didn't see a receipt for the cabinet though. I don't really like the cabinet there so for now...I took it down. I like the more open feeling. :

I was thinking about a Durango. I've always liked those.

[spoutman]

Tami,

The great thing about the newsgroup is the ability to learn from others experiences. Bob Strong's Durango sounds like a real towing machine. If I remenber correctly in 95, Ford's 6 cylinder was a 300 cubic inch straight 6. In the late 70's they were used in trucks up to the F500 series. Then in the eighties Ford went to fuel injection on this engine. They have a LOT of low end torque and might give you a false impression of a 6 cylinder engine. One suggestion, try towing the TrailManor with different vehicles that you are interested in before you buy. Talk to rvers etc. The dealer will look in their books and tell you what a vehicle will tow but, they cannot tell you how it will "feel". For example I tried an 2002 F 150 that Ford stated would tow approx 7000 lbs. My trailManor weighs in at 4120 lbs fully loaded. The 2002 F 150 was horrible and I'm a Ford man. I also towed my TM with my friend's 2000 Toyota Tundra rated to tow 7200 lbs. It was IMPRESSIVE. Two vehicles with very close tow ratings and totally different feel when towing. I have a very steep hill approx. 3/4 of a mile away and that was part of my test. I don't want to tell you what to buy but, if you have a tow vehicle that doesn't feel right, it can make the drive to and from a real chore. You may also want to load up your TM and have it weighed at a truck stop, grain elevator or builders supply etc to give you a good starting point. I hope this helps and doesn't upset everyone. Don't listen to everything the manufatures tell you. Use it as a reference point. Try to experience it for yourself. Also look at www.trailerlife.com. They have tow rating from the truck models by model year.

Good luck,

Spoutman

Thanks Spoutman!

I think that is sound advice!

The TM goes into storage this Tuesday and we won't get it back out for 6 months. So this gives until spring to find something. We want to take our time and do our homework on a tow vehicle.

Rushing into buying the TM was enough stress for awhile! We're just thankful it was a keeper!

Tami & Gary,

You are going to love your new TM. I know this because we love ours. We pull our 3124KS with a 350 (5.7L) V8. I bought the truck new in 1995 and picked all the items I thought I would ever need such as a towing package, 4 wheel drive, limited slip 3.73 rear end, AT and then the creature comforts such as AC, leather bucket seats, radio w/CD & Tape, etc. I caution you about calling it a "poor thing". Ours has been back to the midwest several times and to Florida once. 94,000 miles and still runs and pulls like new. Our first trip after bringing it home from the Phoenix area was to the top of Mt Graham. It is approximately 60 miles to Riggs Lake from our home in Thatcher. The climb is from 3200 ft at home to 9,000 ft at the lake. The road is paved except for the last 15 miles where it is a narrow forest road. Both trailer and tow vehicle made it like the champs they are. You can see our pictures at: http://community.webshots.com/album/97243979KjfxxA

Jim

I'm glad you posted the photo link again, do they have any hook ups there? I saw your truck was parked where the hookups should be. Looks like a nice place other than that. If no hook ups, dump station not far?