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Old 11-19-2014, 06:08 PM   #1
scrubjaysnest
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Default General converter information

This is more of a why I don't like what comes with new or used TM's or other RV's.

The three charging stages or four if you want to count equalization a stage.

Bulk, some times called boost. This puts back about 80% of your charge
current is held constant typically for a deep cycle this max is C/20 times 5.
C=aH rating of the battery. Example 100/20 =5x5= 25 amps max.
Ideal charger will push as many amps as the battery will take, not
exceeding C/20 times 5. This goes on until the battery voltage
raises to 14.7 volts(varies a little between manufacturers).

Absorption, This will try to get the last 20%, voltage is held constant.
The current will decrease until about 1% of C/20. Again varies
between manufacturers.
This is my biggest complaint area, most batteries require absorption voltages at 14.8 or above. The converters currently used by the RV industry don't go above 14.4 volts. Note: AGM and Gel batteries use lower voltages then the flooded lead acid batteries most common in RV's.

Ok enough rant.

Float is a maintenance level that should not boil the batteries.
The ideal charger will drop its output to 13.2 to 13.4 volts and
between 1 and 2 amps. Again varies a little between manufacturers.

Equalization, output is raised to 14.8 volts or higher, some batteries require
as high as 15.5 volts. This is a timed function usually 1 to 2
hours. Again varies between manufacturers. AGM's and Gels
don't need this. What your doing here is stirring the fluid to
get rid of stratification and knock sulfation off the plates.


In the ideal world the user should be able to adjust the charger(converter) to match what the battery manufacture requires for their batteries.
Additionally the charger(converter) should have temperature compensation and remote sense. The only one that comes closest that I have seen to date is Xantrex. Their charging curve is wrong, they hold bulk voltage at 14.7. But they do have temperature compensation.

A quality solar charger comes the closest to ideal but you can't run a converter or charger through them.


AGM's can take a higher bulk charge current and absorption is usually kept
to 14.4 volts.

Gels, lower bulk charge current then either flooded or AGM and lower
absorption voltage.

Since gels and AGM are higher dollar then flooded you really need to look closely at
what the manufacture has to say.


A good source of information is batteryfaq.org.

Maybe this will help members understand better "why my isn't holding charge" or "why batteries don't seem to last very long"

What you can do. Get a good battery, so called smart, charger and monitor the current and voltage during the charge cycle. A bit expensive but less then a new battery every couple of years.
Second thing, add 100 watts solar(minimum) per 100aH of battery with a quality charge controller. This is expensive and buying batteries every couple of years may fit you wallet better. Trojan T 105's are about $150 each now and it takes two for 12 volts.

New batteries before using them charge them fully and let them rest not connected for about 6 hours. Measure the voltage and specific gravity(sg).
SG is measured for each cell. Record the SG you got, the voltage you measured and case temperature to correct the SG reading. This probably needs done once a year or if you think there is a problem. Die hard battery people will say quarterly on monthly.



@ Bill please put in your two cents worth on anything I missed
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:33 PM   #2
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Guess I have a lot of chargers including two (40A and 60A) that can float, taper, and desulphate.

However for years I would pick up HF 42292 when they would go on sale for $4 or $5 (think once was $2.99 but not sure)

Have used them for everything from motorcycle batteries to grp 31 RV. They are not very smart but one reason I like them is they have a max of 800mw (.8w) at 12v dc this is about 60ma which is fine for keeping a computer car ready to go (GM spec is under 50ma and is usually under 20).

Been working for me for years.
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Old 11-20-2014, 04:51 AM   #3
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Most of us have car chargers that won't get the batteries to 100%; usually 80 or 90% is the best they will do. This makes us think the battery is ok but it shortens battery life. Not as much as the high under hood temperatures of course.
True deep Cycle batteries, not the hybrids used as trolling batteries, will last a lot longer if recharged to 100% and not taken below about 50%.

For the GC, Grand Cherokee, I have a 35 watt solar panel with charge controller(cc) that keeps the cranking battery up. 8 months this year. The panel is mounted on the carport roof. I verify the GC battery is at 100%, connect the cc to the battery then connect the solar panel to the cc and close the hood. More expensive ($75 vs $10) then the HF trickle charger but doesn't require electric run 150 feet from the house. When we leave for our travels all power is turned off except for the refrig in the house and the well pump. Water is shut off and lines drained except for the pump and bladder tank.
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:58 AM   #4
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Thats a good answer for your situation. All of my cars are garaged and close to a plug. I usually don't bother with the DDs. \

Incidently like an MG I once had, the GC battery is under the passenger seat. Agree, getting out of the underhood heat (and I run my cars cool - under 200F which makes everything under the hood last longer) increases life.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:38 AM   #5
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scrubjaysnest, Disregarding price, are you saying that AGM batteries, are a better match for a typical RV charging system?

I have been thinking about AGM batteries when it's time to switch out my battery, My thought has been the faster and more efficient recharge rate of the AGM battery and lower amount of maintenance.
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:27 AM   #6
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I've been using AGMs whenever possible for over a decade. In that time I have only had one fail and it was of questionable provenance.
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Old 11-20-2014, 03:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tentcamper View Post
scrubjaysnest, Disregarding price, are you saying that AGM batteries, are a better match for a typical RV charging system?

I have been thinking about AGM batteries when it's time to switch out my battery, My thought has been the faster and more efficient recharge rate of the AGM battery and lower amount of maintenance.
Actually no, the converter in an RV isn't designed to charge a battery. It is designed to run the 12 volt systems. By chance some of the new converters may do a better job on AGM's then flooded or Gel. I say better but most likely the converter won't deliver the amps AGM's want during bulk charging. Beware if the converter manufacture claims their converter will do Equalization. This is something you don't need to do on AGM or Gel and isn't good for AGM and really bad for Gel because of the high voltages involved. A proper equalization will be at lease 14.8 volts and usually is 15.0 or or higher.

Always with any battery look at the manufacturers recommended voltages and currents for bulk, absorption, and float. For an RV equalization may not be as needed unless it sits a lot. Going done the road will keep things pretty well shaken up. If the RV sits maybe a month?, maybe two months?; don't have a good answer here then equalization may be required for flooded batteries.
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:47 PM   #8
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This is the battery my dealer will put in. Is this ok?

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...146_0213498943

This is a glass mat battery that the NAPA dealer here locally confirmed means it is an AGM. Do you guys agree?
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Well, at first glance I thought so, and I guess I still do. But I was surprised by the presnce of vent caps "for easy watering". I thought AGMs were generally sealed, but I think that is incorrect. At any rate, it is a 6-volt battery, so you will need two of them, of course.

Bill
I was surprised about the water caps myself. Yes, there would be two. However, Todd is not sure they will fit in the Dinette version yet as the height maybe too high.
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:50 PM   #10
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Caps, that is my thought? AGM?? Or is it, what ever a Glass Mat is?

Can you get the specs?? I could not find any AH rating. I would think if its 12v you would want 100+ AH ea, 6v 200+ AH ea. using the 20 amp hour rating.
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