Summary

I sparked a lively discussion on towing rigs under the title of Cadillac and though it would be good to summarize what was discussed. I have included some info from other threads and a little bit of advice from my experience towing a popup with a Dodge Intrepid. Everyone please add info or let me know if you think I have made errors. I will edit the post to correct errors.


#1 More is better. This would seem obvious so that is why I put it first.
Having a bigger tow vehicle with more towing capacity is going to be
safer.
The generally accepted rule here is 80%. If you keep your trailer weight
at 80% of your TV towing capacity you will have a fairly large safety
margin to tow frequently and under most if not all conditions.

#2 For towing 4WD is better than 2WD and RWD is better than FWD.
4WD will give you better capability for non-asphalt roads and winter driving
RWD means your drive wheels will not be lifted by the weight of the Trailer
This does not excuse not getting a weight distributing hitch

#3 Stopping is the more critical factor.
When choosing a tow vehicle consider the implications of braking before
the issue of do I have enough power to go up the hill.
Things to consider.
a. Brake controllers. Proportional controllers are better, don't skimp
here.
b. Wheel base is important. if you tow with a short vehicle when you
stop it will push you around.

#4 You can tow with a smaller vehicle but exercise caution. These are best
when most of you towing is on level ground.
a. If you are regularly towing on steep grades(> 4%) stick to the 80%
rule.
b. Keep your speed down and following distance greater than you think
you need even with trailer brakes it will push you.
c. Check your brakes regularly.
Avoid vehicles with rotors that tend to warp especially if you live
where there are hills.
d. Don't skimp on brake parts when it is time to replace them.
Top of the line pads and heavy duty rotors if available.
e. Check you tires regularly. Towing is hard on the tires of your TV.
especially if you are at towing capacity.
f. Transmission coolers are required and coolers are a good idea.

#5 If you are unsure ask questions. this is by far the most helpful and friendly internet forum I have ever seen.

#6 Most importantly enjoy your new TM and camp often.

Avoid vehicles with rotors that tend to warp especially if you live where there are hills.

I disagree with that statement. My Jimmy has four wheel disc brakes and that is partly why I chose it. Disc brakes are far superior to drum brakes and I've never warped a rotor due to braking. It's the dummies at the tire stores that don't know what they're doing that warp rotors. If you properly torque your lug nuts you can avoid warped rotors. This is my opinion and I've been in the mechanics field for over forty years. Now that I said all that, I have seen some warped rotors on some Dodge products that may have warped due to heat, but they didn't have any cooling fins on the rotors - so it may be possible. (I don't think Dodge makes rotors without cooling fins any more.)

You certainly did kick of a lively discussion. My motivation for making a contribution is that I went through the same senario two years ago when some of the same people and others tried to convince me that nothing but a large V8 truck would be safe to tow my intended 2619 or 2720 TM.
Your list of rules are interesting and I would comment on some of these:-

1.I cannot argue that more is better when towing but is it necessary in an age of global warming and increasing moves towards the use of vehicles with much improved gas mileage performance and considerably less emissions? I understand that on average vehicles on US roads use approximately 3 times the amount of gas per mile travelled than is the norm in Europe and in most of the rest of the world, this is directly attributable to the very high number of people who insist on choosing larger trucks and oversize SUV's (consumimg gas at the rate of 10-15mpg) for their everyday travel despite the fact that many of them seldom carry anything but their ego in the vast space behind the drivers seat.
I purchased a TM because with my wife we wanted to explore our beautiful continent and to do this in comfort and as safely and efficiently as possible. For me one vacation journey is longer than the total 4,000 annual mileage covered by PopBeavers. Gas mileage is therfore very important, I could easily afford to purchase and run the largest truck but I would not feel good using energy at the rate of 11mpg or less.

2.I do not agree with the 80% rule which if followed will simply bring you to the conclusion that the only suitable tow vehicle is a large truck. I do not know who invented this rule but I am sure it was not based on sound engineering practice. If a manufacturer sets a towing limit of 3,500 or 5,000lbs for a specific vehicle you can safely comply with this up to that limit and be confident that a healthy safety margin has already been included in the engineering calculations that support that limit.

3. I am not sure what you mean by small vehicle which is a non technical, non specific term. The decision on tow vehicle should not be based on its description but rather on the manufacturers specification. Part of the required specification should include a towing package which normally will include such essential items as a transmission oil cooler.

4.My 05 Toyota Highlander V6 4WD with tow package has a manufactuers specification which in all ways meets the safe requirements to tow my 2619TM. The Highlander easily cruises at a highway tow speed of 60-65mph and on many long hills has a performance that enables me to pass RV's that are struggling to maintain 45mph -we particulary experienced this in Alaska.
I always use a properly adjusted WDH and this rig is more stable and in emergency situations brakes better than any of the 'caravans' that I towed for many years in Europe. We try not to carry unnessary quantaties of clothes, food, water etc as every pound of weight translates into additional energy used.

This is such a vital subject that I have sent an e-mail to the TM manufactuers drawing their attention to this correspondence and suggesting that they may care to become involved and to put forward some guidance on the subject.
Geoffrey Card

I have towed my 3124KS about 25000 miles and I will have to agree with jkeck555 100%. I have a 1999 4-runner with a tow limit of 5000 lbs. I regularly go up and down 1-70 from Denver and hit the 7% grades often. I have found that the weakest part of my 4-runner on those steep grades are the brakes. Although the rotors have fins in the center, they are thin and will warp easily. I have gone through 3 pair of warped rotors and finally resorted to using engine and trailer braking as much as possible.
The 4-runner operates great on grades less than 5% but will have problems with more than 5% grades. But like a lot of people with limited finances, it will have to do for now.

First I don't understand Freedom's disagreeing with avoiding TV's with rotors that warp. I would certainly try to avoid them. That said, I did drive a 4Runner for 287K miles, and the rotors on it warped regularly, and I didn't even tow with it. (It was an '87. I would hope Toyota corrected the rotor problem in later models). Great car, but it would warp rotors!

Secondly, that 80% rule while not written in stone is a good one. It especially holds true in hilly or mountainous terrain. Ten percent will give you plenty of safety margin if you primarily drive on flat ground. If you try to maintain those margins, you do have some fudge factor. That doesn't mean you have to get a 1 ton dually to tow a TM, but you do need enough car to do it safely. That means too, one with enough wheel base that the tail won't be wagging the dog. Most any car on the road has enough HP to tow a TM but that doesn't mean it will do it safely or without excessive wear and tear on the drive train or suspension. If you're going to err, do it on the side of safety.

I'm not trying to slam anybody. My guess is everyone on this forum is probably well within the guidelines anyway. Happy travels! I try to say hello to any TM owners I see on the road. Maybe one day we'll meet, even though I am no longer a TM owner. (I went full timing so had to get something bigger).

I guess I need to go back and talk about the warped rotors. I read the statement as "Don't have something with disc brakes" instead of "don't have a tow vehicle that is known to have a problem with warping discs." I guess we're actually agreeing in that one should have a tow vehicle that doesn't have a problem with warping rotors. Must have been one of those "senior moments" - I seem to be having a lot of those lately. LOL

I hate when that happens. I too am having too many lately, also reading what I expect to be there rather than what is there.

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Card

1.I understand that on average vehicles on US roads use approximately 3 times the amount of gas per mile travelled than is the norm in Europe and in most of the rest of the world, this is directly attributable to the very high number of people who insist on choosing larger trucks and oversize SUV's (consumimg gas at the rate of 10-15mpg) for their everyday travel despite the fact that many of them seldom carry anything but their ego in the vast space behind the drivers seat.
Geoffrey Card

There lies another point.

My 1500HD crew cab, is not used for a daily driver. I use it to:
1. tow the TM to go camping
2. haul stuff that is too bing for my other truck
3. backup vehicle when either my or DWs daily driver is in the show. DW's Sentra has been in the shop for a week now, so she is driving the 1500HD. I just don't see my reason to rent a car daily until such time as hers is fixed.

So, when choosing a TV, consider if it will also be a daily driver.

When purchasing a dedicated TV, you may decide on a divverent vehicle than you would if it was also a tV.

BTW, my brother tow a 30+ foot Montana 5er and better mileage than I do in my daily driver, a 1997 Dakota 2wd v6 extended cab truck. He is getting around 19, but it is diesel.

[Mr. Adventure]

As a newbie to TM and this forum, I hesitate to post from my very brief TM experience, but over the years I have also owned 3 popups, one 27' TT (by far, the scariest), and a 37' class A motorhome. There is no question that today's tow vehicles are superior to those of 15 or 20 years ago in every way, but especially regarding safety issues. Yet, my current technology TV is still rated the same as the one I used back in the mid 80's and late 90's. The limiting factor in tow capacity can be brakes, axle loads, tires, or suspension, but horsepower probably isn't as much of a problem these days. It would be nice to know what the TV engineers were thinking when they set those nice round numbers like "3500" or "5000".

All vehicles on the road are unsafe when they are out of control. The most important thing is to drive a whole lot more cautiously when trailering (or any other RV, for that matter): 1) we're relatively inexperienced in these vehicles (most of us have hundreds of thousands of miles behind us on 4 wheels, but only a few tens of thousands of miles with 6 or more tires on the pavement), 2) Remember that the manufacturer did extensive testing on your TV but very little on it while towing, and 3) All RV's have less room for error; you need to drive with extra margin to make up for all these things.

I use my every day vehicle (a 2003 Toyota Highlander) to pull a TM, and I'm not going to sweat a couple hundred pounds give-or-take in a vehicle that otherwise rides like the best towing package I've ever had on the road. But I do keep my speed down when towing, I consciously travel lighter than in the good old days, and I also slow down in the rain and on the hills.

Thanks for all the great posts on these threads!

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure

The limiting factor in tow capacity can be brakes, axle loads, tires, or suspension, but horsepower probably isn't as much of a problem these days.

You're forgetting the #1 thing:

GEOMETRY! If your wheelbase and track are too short and too narrow, out-of-line loads caused by your Trailer's momentum can easily push you sideways into the ditch. It's a HORIZONTAL thing, not a vertical thing ("axle loads, tires, suspension").

Now (per my title and with regard to bent rotors and fading brakes in several other posts: Yeah, those old 4R's had easily warped rotors. But if your TV brakes rotors are getting bent only when you're towing the by the Trailer, you need to fix or re-adjust your trailer brakes Do you really think that the TV brakes are supposed to stop the Trailer? If so, please think about why they require brakes on Trailers. C'mon people, if you can't adjust your brake controller to function properly, take it to someone who can do the job right. You should NOT need sigificantly higher pedal pressure and braking force in your TV when towing a TM trailer, the trailer brakes should be doing the work!