More Marathon tire failures

[Bill]

A week ago, we left our home in Scottsdale, AZ for a trip to Moab, Utah, to meet our grown kids and spend several days in Arches National Park. Our route took us up through the Navajo Reservation in northern Arizona. If you know “the rez”, as they call it, you know it is huge, almost as large as South Carolina, for example. Almost all of this is empty space, with dozens of miles between even the smallest of villages. No services of any kind, no cell phone service, very few cars on the road. Very pretty, and well worth seeing, but truly the empty quarter. In other words, not the place to get lost or break down.

We had just passed through Mexican Water, Arizona, a quiet community of a dozen or so people, when we blew a tire. Yup, a Goodyear Marathon. During the half hour it took to change the tire, not a single car passed by, but the day was nice, the temperature moderate, and the tools all at hand. Of course, once the tire is changed, you can’t just drive further into the rez with no spare, so we turned around and back tracked to Holbrook, AZ, which has a Goodyear store! They were quite willing to sell us a new Marathon – they sell a lot of ‘em, they say – but the store is locally owned and so they were quite unwilling to discuss warranty compensation.

This tire had perhaps 500 miles on it, and still had full tread depth. We had been religious about maintaining speed at 65 mph or less. Pressure checked that same morning. Cool day. Good road. We were traveling light, since we were going to be gone for only a few days. In other words, no reason for the failure other than the fact that it was a Goodyear Marathon.

At the Goodyear store, we realized that we still had ahead of us the majority of the ride through the rez. To ensure safe passage, my wife (aka The Worrier) insisted that we not only replace the blown tire so that we would have a spare, but that we buy a second wheel and tire, giving us a second spare. Good thing. On our way home yesterday, we went through Monument Valley, home of many John Wayne movies and another extraordinarily beautiful place. We had just gotten through Mexican Hat (a little smaller than Mexican Water, but otherwise similar) when another tire blew. Yes, another Marathon.

By this time, I’m getting pretty good at changing tires. I feel like Ralphie’s old man (played by Darrin McGavin) in A Christmas Story, who bets that he can change a flat on the old Oldsmobile in 8 minutes. Of course, my wife is getting pretty good at handing me all the tools just at the moment I need them. That helps a lot.

So anyway, same story on this tire. Nearly new tire, pressure checked earlier in the day, good road, cool day, moderate speed, weight well under the limit. But it is a Marathon. This time, of course, we didn’t have to stop to buy another tire, since we had that all-important second spare. I'll fight with the local Goodyear people tomorrow.

Interesting side note. When the first tire failed and we were waiting for the new ones to be mounted and balanced, I talked to the owner of the store. When he learned that I would never be back there again and he wasn’t sacrificing a sale, he opened up. It seems that Goodyear has had terrible trouble with the Marathons, both 14” and 15”. In an effort to solve the problems, they are closing the US/Canadian/New Zealand manufacturing plants, and are building a state-of-the-art plant in China for most of their tire manufacturing. Until that comes on line and they get some data on the new tires, the problems with Marathons will continue. When I asked if there are better tires, he said no, but there are worse ones. His advice – stay away from Carlisle, Nanking, and Denon. And don’t try to use an LT tire on a trailer. Other than that, we’re kind of stuck.

TRAIL MANOR, if you are listening, something has to be done about this situation. It is completely unacceptable. This is five tire failures in 5 years for me, the last four in the last 18 months. Please, either find a better tire (you wisely abandoned Carlisle a few years back), or tell us how to use bigger tires on our campers, even if they are Marathons, to gain a little load margin.

And by the way, I'm very pleased to say that once again, the TM handled perfectly through both of these failures. No swaying, bouncing, or other bad behavior of any kind. TM, if you could supply a tire that works as well as the rest of your design, it would be wonderful.

Bill

[fcatwo]

That's tragic. You have far more than your share of tire problems. You can of course add several hundred lbs of capacity by putting 225-D rated Marathons on your trailer with 15" wheels having the 5-bolt, 4-1/2" spacing. Not cheap but might be enough to solve your problem. As for Goodyear, methinks they are just using this to cover a move to China and to punish their U.S. union.

Of course the logical thing to do is trade for the double-axle TM3326 that your wife wants. It's quite possible your problems will persist until you do so:-). I know I shouldn't be making jokes about a serious situation but that would give you peace-of-mind.

[B_and_D]

Wow, that's not good to hear! We bought 3 new Marathons within the last 3 years or so.....so far they've been OK, but we don't travel nearly as far as you do, and of course, being in CA, we aren't supposed to drive over 55 with the trailer.....

Did you have any damage from the blowouts?

[Bill]

Frank mentioned

... 225-D rated Marathons on your trailer with 15" wheels

Frank -

Have you done this? Will they fit? I think this is the most sensible solution, but two Goodyear dealers have peered into the wheel well and told me they won't fit. Experiences, please! If you've already told the story, please shoot me a link!

And yes, I seem to have more than my share of failures, but I also put more than my share of miles under the TM each year. I think the equation tracks correctly. More miles = more failures - but the failure rate is way too high.

And don't even suggest to my wife that we get the much-coveted 3326!

And Leon asked

I always travel with 50 psi and at 60 mph....What is your pressure and speed?

I travel with 50 psi and 65 mph on Interstate-quality highways - slower on rougher roads, of course. I recently decided to experiment with higher tire pressure/same speed, as the Goodyear website suggests you can do. On these latest two failures, one tire was running about 52 psi, the other about 58 psi.

I'm stumped.

Bill

I am curious also if anybody has gone to the 15" rims on a TM with a lift kit. I have a 2003 2720 that has the original Marathon maypop tires, and want to replace them soon. If the 15" rims and tires will work, then I think I am going to go that route. I am also curious if any one knows if the 14" & 15" rims have the same offset.

According to the Goodyear website, both the "C" & "D" rated ST225/75R15 tires have a 1.6" diameter more than the ST215R/75R14s, and are .8" wider. That would add ~.8" to the ride height (maybe a little more for the "D" rated tire, since it is stiffer). The width would be less than 1/2" on each side. On the "C" rated 15" tire, the weight rating is 2150@50 psi, almost a 300 lb. gain each over the 14" tires. And the "D" rated 15" tire, is 2540@65, a 670 lb. gain each. If I go the 15" tire route, I think I would just go with the "C" rated tires to save a little shaking in the TM due to the stiffer sidewall.

If only they made a "D" rated 14" trailer tire.

I going to do some careful measuring to see if the 15s might work on our TM. But first hand knowledge from someone else is probably better than my measuring and ciphering.

mtnguy

[kempert]

Bill -

Sorry to hear about your tire problems. Despite the problems, I hope you at least got to enjoy the absolutely beautiful scenery in the Four Corners area. I also hope you got a chance to spend some time at Arches.

Now I'm really in a quandry on what to do with my TM tires. I'm still using my factory installed Marathons and plan to replace them within 2 weeks before I head out again. They are about 5.5 years old being made "4801" and have no signs of being in need of replacement after around 25,000 miles of travel. They have good tread depth and I cannot find a single sign of cracking and they have been outside (uncovered) their entire life.

I keep them parked on wood or plastic for extended periods. I had all 3 balanced when they were new and have rotated the curb side tire with the spare once. I monitor the psi regularly and very, very rarely go over 65 mph. As a matter of fact, I've spent most of my towing under 60 mph.

I now have my repair guy (his father worked on vehicles for my father and grandfather) working on finding what he thinks is the best tire. He is checking with his tire supplier for me. I'll let you know what we find.

I'm wondering if the older GYMs are better than the new ones. There might be some fact in the union strike affecting the quality of their product. Hopefully, those of us who use this site can solve this problem ourselves.

I was feeling a little safer having moved up to the 14 inch wheels and tires from 13 inch. Now Im not so sure. One thing I heard AFTER I purchased my 14 inch Towmaster radials is that bias ply are better trailer tires than radials because they are stiffer side walls, although it makes for a bumpier ride. The flex of the radial sidewalls makes them more prone to failure.
Has anyone heard this theory?
Cheri (who wants to know why I always hear things after the fact )

[kempert]

My guy says his tire supplier suggested a Kelly tire and a Denman tire. Kelly has been around for a long time but so has Good Year. Denman is specialty tire manufacturer and that's all I know about them. I should get a chance tomorrow to do more research.

Originally Posted by 2bcs1jrt

I was feeling a little safer having moved up to the 14 inch wheels and tires from 13 inch. Now Im not so sure. One thing I heard AFTER I purchased my 14 inch Marathons is that bias ply are better trailer tires than radials because they are stiffer side walls, although it makes for a bumpier ride. The flex of the radial sidewalls makes them more prone to failure.
Has anyone heard this theory?
Cheri (who wants to know why I always hear things after the fact )

As my screenname implies, my business is tires. I have 26 years in the tire business, and know full well how faulty Marathon Radials are. I refuse to sell them. I see more than my share of them because my company also transports waste tires for other companies. We see MANY separated (tire terminology for when the belts become separated from the rubber they are encased in) Marathon Radials. Sometimes separation in tires is caused by damage, but this is not the case I see with the Marathons. A separated tire can cause severe damage, including the worse case scenario of death due to a wreck.

My personal observation has been that when these tires get around 3 years old, to replace them. Mileage/use doesn't matter.

Without boring everyone to sleep, I'm going try to put it in laymen's term about tires, all tires, not just marathons. Tire rubber is not naturally black, but an off white. The tire industry uses carbon black as a preservative for the rubber against ozone, which dries rubber out. When rubber dries out, besides not flexing easily, it will leak air, possibly separate, and other bad things. Carbon Black keeps the rubber from drying out quickly, and also gives it the black color. If anyone has ever noticed, a whitewall (which doesn't have carbon black) on a tire dry cracks before the rest of the tire.

There also is a trade off between carbon black and traction. Tires with less carbon black have better traction than ones with more carbon black. However, the better traction is negated by shorter rubber life out in the ozone, because it has less preservative. This is my opinion on part (but not all) of Marathon's problem. It doesn't have the proper amount of carbon black it needs, and therefore the rubber dries out too quick. The rubber drying, and not easily flexing, is allowing the steel belts encased in the rubber to break free.........thus separate and peel off.

Tire rubber starts drying out, as soon as it is manufactured. The clock starts ticking the day it's made. All tires manufactured for on road use have a Department of Transportation (DOT) code on the sidewall. If you will look at the last four digits after the word DOT (3 if manufactured before 2000) of this code, you can see the week and year manufactured. This code is usually 12 letters/numbers but not always. Ex: if the last four digits say 3603, then this tire was manufactured the 36th week of 2003.

Just because you purchase a new tire, doesn't mean you got a new made tire. This tire could have sat in a warehouse and then in dealers stock for years, before you got it. The whole time, the clock is ticking on the rubber. It's a good idea to see how fresh made the rubber is, everytime you purchase a tire, either for yourself or your trailer.

Another problem that all trailer tires suffer from is lack of use. Since we don't pull our trailers everyday, our rubber doesn't stay flexing, with all the oils in the rubber being constantly circulated with centrifugal force that our everyday vehicles do. Letting a tire sit, is not what it was made for. It helps the rubber to dry.

Proper maintenance of tires is essential for long life and safety, but with some tires, it won't be enough stop the failure of certain ones........which I strongly believe is just about every marathon radial.

Is anyone still awake?

If anyone is interested, I can explain the difference between radial and bias. Steel belted means something else.

BY ALL MEANS, PLEASE EXPLAIN!
And how do we keep our tires in shape outside of covering them, driving slow and checking PSI? Is there something we can treat them with to slow them from drying out??
And which are best and why?