Questions on towing vehicle / TM model years

Looking to possibly make a 2720SL purchase (first-ever camper!), but curious as to:

1) I've got a 2005 Acura MDX -- looks as though it would pull the 2720SL if I get the towing package installed, no? Owner's manual says 3500# tow limit ... and the MDX gets 230 ft-lbs of torque at just 2000 rpm (redline is 6300 rpm) with a final gear ratio of 4.38. These are good towing numbers, correct?

2) Are there any differences between the 2005 and 2006 TM models?

Thanks in advance for the help!

- Mark

[fcatwo]

Hi Mark and welcome to TMO.

I doubt you'll be surprised to hear that you are not the first to ask that question about a mid-size SUV. There has been a lot of discussion in the "Towing Rigs" section here that will be educational and you can use the search function to find specifics. Be sure to read the thread started by a new Honda Ridgeline owner. It covers a lot of ground in short order.

But to give you a quick answer: A number of people are happily camping with similar combination to the one you are considering and some other people think they may be unwise to do so. I doubt that fact surprises you either.

There is probably a towing discussion going on over at the MDX owners web site as well if you haven't been there yet.

Mark,

Here is my two-cents worth on the subject of towing. We tow our 2619, with no difficulty whatsoever, with a Chevy Blazer that has a 4 point something V6 engine and a towing capacity of 5500lbs. The only modification we made was to have a transmission cooler installed to the tune of about $75.

Happy Camping

Michael

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by radiojon

Looking to possibly make a 2720SL purchase (first-ever camper!), but curious as to:

1) I've got a 2005 Acura MDX -- looks as though it would pull the 2720SL if I get the towing package installed, no? Owner's manual says 3500# tow limit ... and the MDX gets 230 ft-lbs of torque at just 2000 rpm (redline is 6300 rpm) with a final gear ratio of 4.38. These are good towing numbers, correct?

2) Are there any differences between the 2005 and 2006 TM models?

Thanks in advance for the help!

- Mark

The MDX is basically a somewhat high power Honda Pilot. The Pilot manuals typically discuss tow limits of 3500 lbs for travel trailers, 4500 lbs for boats (lower profile?). Do a search here on towing with a Honda Pilot..you'll find a substantial amount of discussion but probably no really clear conclusions.

I have a 2720SL..and it's now fairly well equipped (AC, awning, dual batteries) and I often load it for 3+ days of boondock camping (full fresh water/hot water, full refrig, full cabinets). It therefore typically weighs somewhere between 3500 and 3900 lbs.

Your MDX's numbers look fairly good for towing at sea level and on fairly level roads. Not all that great for mountain towing, especially at high altitudes (lke the Colorado Rockies).

Bottom line: Your MDX should be adequate to good for towing a 2720SL on flat to gently rolling roads at near sea level altitudes. At higher altitudes or on mountain grades you may find it somewhat to very challenged.

Mark,

I am the owner of the Honda Ridgeline previously mentioned here. (For anyone confused, I changed my user name when I became a paying member.) After being educated by the fine folks on this forum, I decided to forgo a larger TM and bought a 2720SL so that I would have a better chance of avoiding problems if I towed at high elevations.

I could be wrong, but I think that the engine in the Ridgeline is also used in the Acura MDX. The Ridgeline comes with towing accommodations such as a larger radiator, second fan, and a transmission cooler. One other reason it may have a higher tow capacity (5,000 lbs.) is that it has a very strong frame that is a hybrid of unibody and a closed box ladder frame that they say is stiffer than other trucks of it's size.

My Ridgeline specs are:

3.5 L V6; 255hp at 5750 rpm; 252 lb.–ft. at 4500 rpm; 5 spd auto; gear ratios - 1st = 2.693, 2nd = 1.566, 3rd =1.023, 4th = 0.729, 5th = 0.531; Final Drive = 4.533; 6050 lb. = GVWR; 10,085 lb. = GCWR; 5000 lb. = Towing Capacity; 1550 lb. = Total Payload Capacity; 122” = wheelbase; track = 67”; curb weight = 4500 (58%F/42%R).

Your peak torque is a little less but reached at a much lower RPM. Perhaps its because its a different transmission with different priorities engineered into the gear ratios? I am still a little fuzzy on this torque vs. horsepower stuff. But they say torque is what really counts. I did some math to determine how fast I would be going in each gear at my max torque rpm. I then took the truck out before I got the trailer and drove it a bit at those speeds in each of the gears, which did seem to come at 4500 RPM, to see how annoying the engine noise would be. I don’t know how valid my test was, but I decided that 4500 RPM’s was acceptable for me nerve wise and I could use all the torque that the engine and transmission were able to give me when I needed it. So far I have not needed it.

When I bought it, I drove it home on Route 17 (future I 86) over the southern Catskill Mountains. On most of the trip I drove 65 or better and had no problems at all. Although my engine redlines at 6300 like yours, I don't think it ever went over 4300 and most of the trip it was a little over 2000. At the 4300 RPM's I could hear the engine, but it was not at all annoying. The engine never lacked the power for me to maintain 65 MPH even on some considerable climbs. Unlike out west, they don't usually bother to post grades on our little hills. I called NYS DOT and spoke to a civil engineer who looked up the climb on my route that he thought would be the steepest. It was 2 1/2 miles of 10 percent grade.

That sounds good so far...however there are a couple caveats. Most important is that the Catskills are quite low in elevation. Contributors to this forum say you should adjust your towing capacity by 3 to 4 percent for each 1000 feet above sea level. My owner's manual says to adjust by 2 percent per 1000 feet. I am hoping the engine has advanced technology that will make the 2 percent more realistic because it really cuts down on your towing capacity when you reach 8,000 to 12,000 feet.

Second, the TM has AC and awning but there were no dishes, food, clothes blankets etc. and my truck was fairly lightly loaded too. This is not insignificant. I could easily add 500 lbs to the total load when I go camping.

So, while I am very pleased so far, the final verdict is not in yet.

I love my Ridgeline, and it seems I am going to love my TM. If I take it out west and find it does much better in the real mountains than I expect, I may trade up then. I know if I had bought a larger one to start with two things would have happened. First, I would get accustomed to the extra storage space while using it at low elevations and never want to trade it in on a smaller one. Second, for sure, the knowledgeable folks here, like Rocky Mountain Ray, would be right and I would be SOL with a larger unit with all the “stuff” I would fill it with when it came to taking it through any high passes out west.

After having the Ridgeline for 3 months, I can't imagine ever wanting to give it up to get a TV with a larger towing capacity. It's a great car/truck combination and perfect for my use. The best option for me was to go with a smaller TM and be forced to travel light.

I plan to camp someplace not too far away next month as a trial run, then go to Cape Breton in September and Florida in January. None of those will test the towing capacity.

Hope this was somewhat helpful.

Jim

[Denny_A]

Originally Posted by Jim-NY

..................
That sounds good so far...however there are a couple caveats. Most important is that the Catskills are quite low in elevation. Contributors to this forum say you should adjust your towing capacity by 3 to 4 percent for each 1000 feet above sea level. My owner's manual says to adjust by 2 percent per 1000 feet. I am hoping the engine has advanced technology that will make the 2 percent more realistic because it really cuts down on your towing capacity when you reach 8,000 to 12,000 feet.

Jim

Jim,

Comment on power reduction with altitude increase. It is purely a function of rate-of-change of density with altitude - i.e., density altitude. Advanced technology would be that new-fangled invention called a "supercharger"!

Lacking a "charger", Standard Atmospheric Tables indicate that the AVERAGE loss (due to reduced air density) is 2.7% per 1000 ft. If conditions are non-standard, as in hot, the loss of power will be greater. So, 3% loss of power per 1000' elevation gain is probably a reasonable rule-of-thumb.

Denny_A

Thanks to all for the incredibly helpful insight! I should've mentioned that we live in middle Tennessee, so it's doubtful that we'll do a lot of mountain camping (with the possible exception of a few trips to the Smoky Mountains). I also called the local Acura dealership and the service manager also said it shouldn't be a problem -- so long as I keep it around that 3500# limit.

Our local TM dealer just got a 2720SL on the lot today for us ... did our first walk-thru earlier today and it seems like just what we need. I think we'll pull the trigger and go buy it tomorrow.

Thanks again!

- Mark

[fcatwo]

Radiojon

I'm sure you'll enjoy your new TM if the deal works out. I'm curious however: What does Acura say about using a weight distributing hitch with the MDX? I've read here and elsewhere that Honda doesn't recommend them with the Ridgeline or Pilot and the Ridgeline Owners-Manual offered a pretty ridiculous explanation for the restriction. They didn't have such a restriction with our 02 Odyssey (which likely has less structural integrity than either the P or R) and I've never read or heard of a WDH/frame failure on any of them. I have to assume their anti-liability attorneys are getting the upper hand in writing their owners manuals --- even to the point of compromising their customers safety. Personally, I dont know how they can sleep at night after advertising that the Ridge can tow 5,000lbs (which with a properly loaded travel trailer means at least 500lbs of tongue load) and then tell people not to use a WDH.

Your 2720SL will place a fairly significant tongue load (400-600lbs) 3+ft behind the rear wheels on your "independent-rear-suspension" MDX and IMHO you'll benefit greatly from using a WDH. Many Pilot and Ridge owners are apparently using them anyway because of their obvious safety and handling benefits. They can provide those benefits even if your MDX has self-leveling in the rear.

That's just my $0.02 however.

Good point. I use a WDH with my Ridgeline. This discussion was going on in the Ridgeline forums as well. Honda brags about the frame strength then suggested not using the WDH "because most people don;t adjust them properly" I decided using a WDH and being sure to use it properly was the right thing to do.

There may be information abouot this in MDX forums.

Jim

[fcatwo]

Hi Jim

I spent some time on an MDX owners site yesterday and didn't find much about trailer towing: boats-yes, trailers-no. It occurs to me that info about diesel pushers and good 5-star hotels may be easier to find there -- at least that's all my wife's cousin, who drives an MDX, knows enough about to answer questions :-). I understand that Toyota Highlander sites are much the same. Toyota buffs usually go for the 4Runner for towing anything heavier than a popup.