Another minivan story

We purchased our TM because we were led to believe that we wouldn't have to purchase another vechicle because we were "just fine" with out Plymouth minivan....WRONG!!!! We didn't have any problems during our first 2 trips in Florida (flat, flat, flat), but we were trying to tow up hills in Virginia last week and the minivan was REALLY struggling....we had a transmission cooler, but it was just too hot out and the car just didn't like it and neither did we....ended up trading the minivan (in the middle of our vacation!!) for a Trailblazer and continued on to New Hampshire and had absolutely no problems! We tow the smallest TM (2619) and there are just two of us....we definetely would not advise trying to tow for any length of time in the heat and/or in mountains with a minivan no matter what anyone tells you!!!!!!!

Eleanor, just curious, what size engine was your mini van? We have a Chevy Astro. It has a V6 engine. I would like to go to Colorado someday. Sure hope we don't have the same problem. Sorry to hear what you went through.
Red

I think you'll find that they Astro van is a capable enough TV. It is built on a real frame and are rated to tow somewhere around 5000#, properly equiped. It is more of a truck than a car, as most minivans made today are. I would tow our TM with one should it fit my needs.

As for most of today's vans, they are built much more like a car. Front wheel drive, unibody construction. The Windstar, Freestar, Caravan, Venture/Montana/etc., Sienna, Oddessey, all fit into that. None of them make for a robust TV.

So long as the Astro has low (3.73 or 4.10) gears in the rear and a tranny cooler I'd feel OK about towing with it. Just have to be mindful of what you pile in the back of the van. I tow with a Ranger pick-up with similar ratings to the Astro.

Camperboy

Thank you T-C and Camperboy. Just another reason why I gladly sent my $12.00 to Chris yesterday.
Red

[RockyMtnRay]

[quote author=Red link=board=20;threadid=2129;start=msg14803#msg1480 3 date=1089745423]
We have a Chevy Astro. It has a V6 engine. I would like to go to Colorado someday. Sure hope we don't have the same problem. [/quote]

As someone who lives in Colorado and tows a 2720SL over this state's high passes about every other week, I'm going to firmly disagree with those who think your van will "do fine". I just checked the specs for the 4.3L V6 and see that it has only 250 ft-lbs of torque (when climbing mountain grades, it's torque and not horsepower that counts). Furthermore, the 3.42 standard axle is awfully "tall" gearing and the optional 3.73 gears aren't exactly impressive to me. This combination means that your van will be seriously struggling the last 4 to 5 miles (top 1000 to 2000 feet of elevation gain) on most of the passes in the central Colorado mountains...nearly all of these passes are over 11,000 feet and some are over 12,000 feet above sea level. By seriously struggling, I mean you will need WOT (wide open throttle) in 1st gear to just maintain about 35 mph once you get over about 10,000 feet.

As a point of reference, my Toyota Tundra truck has a 4.7L, 32-valve V8 that (stock) puts out 319 ft-lbs of torque through a 3.91 axle ratio. With the trailer in tow, I was able to hold 55 to 60 mph (and stay with traffic) on the tougher climbs (e.g. the 10 mile long, 7% grade on the west side of Vail Pass on I70 or the higher altitude, 8 mile long 7% grade on the western approach to the Eisenhower Tunnels on I70)...but I had to flog it up to 4200 RPM at WOT the whole way up. Admittedly that's adequate to decent performance and I was literally blowing by most other rigs...but I felt that even I could use some more power. So I recently had JBA racing headers installed and am now getting about 345 ft-lbs of torque. The truck is now doing the climbs pretty well...on a trip earlier this week I found it would even accelerate nicely in 2nd gear while going up 10 to 12 percent grades at 10,000 feet. Though I still feel it could use a little more oomph so I'm planning even more performance modifications with the eventual goal of getting around 370 ft-lbs of torque out of the engine.

IMHO, the minimum specs to tow reasonably well over the more challenging Colorado mountain roads are an engine with at least 300 ft-lbs of torque and not less than a 3.9 axle ratio. On the "easy" passes like Wolf Creek, you might do OK with a 250 ft-lb engine but you won't on the harder ones.

[kempert]

I have towed my TM with an V6 4.3 Astro and a V8 Tundra. The Astro did fine crossing the Blue Ridge Mtns but I wouldn't try it on the passes in CO. Like RMR, I had no problems on the passes in CO last month with the Tundra. I almost always stay under 65mph and the 10% - 12% grades were a breeze.

Thank you Rocky. Definitely will keep your info. in mind.
Red

Try this site which has a comparison of tow vehicles with a 6,000 lb trailer attached to it on a grade.

http://edmunds.com/reviews/compariso...8/article.html

I pull a 98 3023 with a 98 GMC Safari AWD minivan. It has the 4.3 V6 and 3.43 rear end. The 3023 fully loaded for a weekend trip weighed 3600# on a CAT scale at a truck stop. We have towed our 3023 from MI to Florida. We live in Ohio and don't plan on travelling to the rockies with this rig. However, we feel east of the Mississippi this rig is acceptable. The primary reason for purchasing the TM was to have a camper that we could pull with our van vs. having to go out a by a large truck. In the future we hope to purchase a diesel pick-up truck. However, at that time we will likely upgrade from the TM to a Fifth Wheel. Until then I am happy with our rig and feel the Safari/Astro is an acceptable TV for a 3023.

We have towed our TM over 5,000 miles in the past 2.5 years with this set-up.

[Bill]

[quote author=KdHammonds link=board=20;threadid=2129;start=msg14950#msg1495 0 date=1090202024]We have towed our 3023 from MI to Florida. We live in Ohio and don't plan on travelling to the Rockies with this rig. However, we feel east of the Mississippi this rig is acceptable.[/quote]Your story is a great example of the mantra that a couple of us have been preaching for quite a while. WHERE you plan to tow is very important! The common question "Can I tow a TM with such-and-such a vehicle" is pretty much meaningless until the WHERE has been answered.

The Edmunds article cited by ccc6588 a few days ago shows the other end of the spectrum - some of those monster trucks could tow a TM anywhere, including straight up the side of the Grand Canyon! Most of us live somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. We don't want to buy too much truck - that's expensive. But we don't want to buy too little, either - that's dangerous, and it quickly wears out the vehicle. In order to make the right choice, it is important to define our needs - WHERE AND HOW we are going to tow. For many of us, a modest V-8 with a towing package and a decent wheelbase is a good choice (like Ray's Tundra or my Explorer). Some folks can work with a little bit less because they have made choices that make it possible. And some people really do need a monster truck, based on their intended usage.

Some vehicles are obviously too small for any towing at all. And among the range of most vehicles, there are no "one size fits all" magic answers. So I applaud you for fully thinking through the question, and coming to a conclusion that works for you.

Bill