Rear Vision Camera System for Tow Vehicle

[jbeletti]

Hi all,

Most of you don't know me yet, other than a few pre-TM purchase posts on this site, but I'm sort of a tech-head.

Well, I've gone and done it again - another tech-based solution that probably could have been solved cheaper with a low-tech approach - but what fun would that have been for me!

When I brought my TM home from the dealer (http://www.dannyscampers.com), I was caught in the middle of a Wisconsin snow storm. Not having any recent towing experience and in a storm to boot, it was bit, no, a lot un-nerving, not being able to see behind me but especially not being able to see next to me.

Even though I was towing and even though it was snowing, there were vehicles going much slower than me. Pulling out to pass them on I-90 was not so bad but knowing when it was safe to come back in was my problem. My standard Jeep Liberty mirrors could only see trailer.

Being sort of into cameras (http://www.beletti.com/webcam), I envisioned a rearview camera system that allowed me to see to my side and around the Trailmanor. The result of this is posted on my website at this URL: http://www.beletti.com/travel/trailmanor/rearvision.htm

Since the trailer is still in storage, I have yet to be able to test, tweak, lockdown and certify my little system, but I am hopeful. While the cameras are mounted outside of the luggage rack area, they still may not be out far enough to see around the trailer. If need be, I will go back to bracket fabrication to solve any issue.

If anyone has been considering any sort of a system like this, I'd be happy to consult with on ideas and product sources.

Take care all (and, is it Spring yet?!),

Jim

http://www.beletti.com/travel

[RockyMtnRay]

Jim...

I'm a tech-head myself but also a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. principal. Video rear vision is a neat concept in theory but will come up short in reality, largely because video is pretty low resolution, loses a lot of the depth cues because of the single camera lens, is subject to getting dirt/mud/water on the lens, and is just plain complex. Properly mounted and sized towing mirrors are, IMHO, a far, far, far better solution than a complex video system. For one thing, they extend far enough out from the side of the vehicle to give you some vision of what's immediately behind your trailer and the ability to properly estimate how much clearance there is between the rear of your trailer and a vehicle in the lane you want to move into. You are simply not going to get this perspective from a roof mounted camera.

'Tis true that the stock mirrors on your Liberty are useless for towing a moderately wide trailer like a TM...the stock mirrors on my old Cherokee (about the same width as your Liberty) were equally useless.

But, like many here, I solved all of my rear vision problems when towing by getting a pair of strap-on Mckesh towing mirrors . Once you get them adjusted, they go on and off in about 15 seconds, do not mar the paint and do not vibrate. I ordered the optional convex mirrors with mine and find they really remove all blind spots. McKesh mirrors are the gold standard for maximizing your rear vision, particularly on SUVs and other vehicles you don't want to permanently mount large towing mirrors on.

EDIT: Added: Most states have laws that clearly specify mirrors for rear vision (see this camping world article (about the Mckesh mirror) for specifics of each state) . So even if you do manage to rig a workable rearview video system, you're still very likely to eventually get ticketed for not complying with the requirement to have suitable rearvision mirrors.

[Bill]

As another unredeemed techie, I think this is a fascinating project. I have a ton of questions for you, and technical discussions to have with you. But most of them are probably beyond the interest of the group here.

I have to agree with Ray - McKesh mirrors are great, and I wouldn't leave home without mine. And the lack of 3-D (depth) cues may prove annoying. But the project overall should be fun, and a great learning experience!

Look for email. But mostly, as you proceed with the project, let us all know your experiences, the results, and the lessons learned. Those are the most valuable of all.

Bill

[jbeletti]

RockyMtnRay and Bill,

As I have come to learn in the last 4 months, reading a couple hundred threads on this board, no one's post is complete until RockyMtnRay & Bill weigh in. And I say this with much respect - you guys know a lot and when it comes to TMs and camping, I know nothing yet - but am willing to learn from the masters.

Thank you for your input on my little project and especially the endorsement of the McKesh mirrors. I will look at them at Camping World the next time I stop in (lucky to have one within a half hour from home).

Until then, I will plug away and fine-tune my little project and learn what I can from it (and update my web page with my findings of course).

Hope to meet you guys out on the trail one day.

Thanks again,

Jim

[Bill]

I look forward to meeting you in person, Jim. We have exchanged thoughts on many topics, both on the board and in private conversations. As two techies, we'll have a great time - and probably bore our wives to death!

Bill

Jim, I have often thought about a single rear mounted color camera in addition to supplemental mirrors (I am using the cheap ones that vibrate but I can still see what and who I am cutting off). In any event I was planning to have a friend of mine who sells and installs aftermarket systems in Ford and Lincoln-Merc SUVs etc. for the dealer where I was selling, take a look at it, but I keep missing him. His units normally included a moving map GPS system with talking a broa- opps lady. The best part of it was the monitor. The display was actually the left side of the wind shield mounted rear view mirror. It can be toggled to show the camera info and back to map. My intent was to mount the camera on the rear of the TM roof. I was not planning to include a GPS until I upgrade the TV. Those systems complete were approximately $2200 to $2500 installed with Map DVDs as desired. Low tech is just not as much fun. Keep the info coming on your installation progress and performance when you get it finished. It looks great.

[RockyMtnRay]

RockyMtnRay and Bill,

As I have come to learn in the last 4 months, reading a couple hundred threads on this board, no one's post is complete until RockyMtnRay and Bill weigh in. And I say this with much respect - you guys know a lot and when it comes to TMs and camping, I know nothing yet - but am willing to learn from the masters.

Thank you for your input on my little project and especially the endorsement of the McKesh mirrors. I will look at them at Camping World the next time I stop in (lucky to have one within a half hour from home).

Err, um, I very seriously doubt you'll find McKesh mirrors at a Camping World store. They aren't in the on line catalog and being fairly pricey for just a mirror, definitely not a mass market item. The relatively inexpensive clip on and clamp on mirrors that Camping World does sell are highly prone to vibration IMHO. I just did a google on Mckesh Mirrors and the only seller that turned up was Hensley Mfg, the maker of these mirrors. This, BTW, is the same Hensley that designed and makes the highly respected but oh so pricey (~$2500) Hensley Arrow hitch. Basically a small niche company that makes very top of the line products.

So basically, you're either going to have to find someone with these mirrors or take it on faith that they're best mirrors available. IIRC, there has been at least one thread here at TMO.COM on mirrors... this is one of the more recent...as usual the vote is overwhelmingly for McKesh amongst those who have tried the others.

Until then, I will plug away and fine-tune my little project and learn what I can from it (and update my web page with my findings of course).

I wish you the best with it. One suggestion: instead of trying a system mounted on the Liberty's roof (about 25 to 27 feet ahead of the rear of the trailer), how about one mounted at the rear of your TM's roof (ala jniles thinking)?. Bit more complicated cable wise but at least you could actually see who/what was directly behind your trailer and have a decent idea of how much clearance there is between the rear of the trailer and a vehicle in an adjacent lane. It would also be a great boon to backing the trailer into a tight camping spot.

Hope to meet you guys out on the trail one day.

I share that wish.

Thanks again,

Most welcome.

[jbeletti]

Hey Ray,

Thanks for the link to the mirrors - will check it out later. I initially considered putting the rear vision camera on the TM but decided to wait on that for two reasons.

First, no easy access to the trailer - it's being stored in a friends back yard and the grass is soft and mushy back there now.

Second, complexity. I will have to first determine the ideal mounting location. Then settle for the best-fit mounting location. Then there's that 'running wiring from the back, all the way to the hitch' thing. I have read some threads on the board that discuss running wires the entire length. Doubt I'll find a handy wiring chase to use, but I wouldn't mind running some 1/2 inch PVC conduit the entire distance on the underside of the trailer. I am sure there are many considerations and complications with this. The good news is that the plugs are pretty small on the harness, so I can run it through 1/2 inch pipe easily. And I did get an extra harness for this task.

When I am camping and have some time to peruse the TM more, I will scout out the possibilities. Ideally, for side viewing as well as rear, on top of the A/C unit may be ideal - but I shudder to thing of how I would/could securely mount it there and run cabling that won't flop around (duct tape the cabling for travel only, then remove it at the campsite perhaps).

You all have a great weekend as I will be offline until Tuesday night.

Jim

[Denny_A]

Jim,

I offer a third endorsement for the McKesh mirrors. Wouldn't leave home (whilst towing) without them! Got mine on sale, from Hensley, for $100. Money well spent.

Denny_A

While it may be a little more complex electrically (having to supply 110v to the transformer, or matching the 12v to the receiver's needs) I think looking at the X-10 wireless cams would be the way to go. In fact I have a spare set that I've been toying with doing just that with, but I'm still struggling with getting my TM road-ready.

I have an oldl Sony Picturebook PC that I've mounted on my dash for mapping, MP3, etc, and it will accept input from the X-10 receiver via USB.

I'll let you know when I eventually get time to actually plug the stuff together.