Anybody experience sway or fishtail?

[davlin]

Originally Posted by Bill

Let me guess. Friction sway bar?

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=2923

Bill

Yep.

Dave

Originally Posted by davlin

...
an integrated brake controller that can apply just the trailer brakes in an emergency situation is a game changer, for sure.
...

As I understand it, they do only activate under extreme, emergency situations. Mine never has, but hopefully it will if necessary.

Unfortunately, Ford has been promoting it in such a way that some people now think it's a replacement for good sway control at the hitch.

[MarkoPolo]

Interesting post! I just got back from an 1800 mile trip, 900 with the TM 2922. I had three incidents of "violent" sway on this trip. If the Ford F-150 did not have sway control I don't know what might have happened on the first one. No sudden movements, no hard stops, just passing and pulling back in the lane. There was however strong crosswinds. I never had that happen with the Coleman popups of the past. I really don't think I need a WDH with this pick-up and it's heavy duty tow package, but I sure am in the market for an anti-sway device. The Ford pulled like a dream, almost no effort going over 9 mountain passes and got 13mpg while towing, but I won't feel safe until I understand the sway and get it under control. Any suggestions for anti-sway greatly appreciated.
Mark

Originally Posted by MarkoPolo

Interesting post! I just got back from an 1800 mile trip, 900 with the TM 2922. I had three incidents of "violent" sway on this trip. If the Ford F-150 did not have sway control I don't know what might have happened on the first one. No sudden movements, no hard stops, just passing and pulling back in the lane. There was however strong crosswinds. I never had that happen with the Coleman popups of the past. I really don't think I need a WDH with this pick-up and it's heavy duty tow package, but I sure am in the market for an anti-sway device. The Ford pulled like a dream, almost no effort going over 9 mountain passes and got 13mpg while towing, but I won't feel safe until I understand the sway and get it under control. Any suggestions for anti-sway greatly appreciated.
Mark

Do you know what your hitch weight is? My guess is that it's over 600# and so you are exceeding Ford's recommendations of 500# max without a WDH. I towed my Elkmont when it was 620# without a WDH for a short distance without major problems but there was no wind, no trucks, slow speeds. Now I've finally got it down to 500# by piling up a bunch of weight behind the rear trailer axle, and we've gone long distances without the WDH without issues.

If you're putting too much weight on the ball (above Ford's 500# limit) without a WDH, you're probably tilting too much weight off the front end of the truck. This can lead to squirrely steering and sway. Also if your truck still has those P-rated tires (instead of LT-rated truck tires), you will notice some squirm due to sidewall flex. I've also added a spring helper and HD shocks as Ford's regular F150 suspension is ridiculously soft IMHO.

As for WDH, if and when we upgrade to a bigger/heavier trailer, I'll probably get an Equal-i-zer 4 point, primarily because it's easy to install, easy to adjust, reasonably priced and works well from what I hear. The Reese Dual Cam is another popular WDH with anti-sway that works well, but a bit harder to install and adjust. There are cheaper and more expensive options as well.

[davlin]

Originally Posted by brulaz

As I understand it, they do only activate under extreme, emergency situations. Mine never has, but hopefully it will if necessary.

Unfortunately, Ford has been promoting it in such a way that some people now think it's a replacement for good sway control at the hitch.

Brulaz,

Yep. That was the point of my story. Extreme, emergency situations. By definition, you can't predict when one will happen and it may be that the very best sway control at the hitch won't prevent the trailer from going into a violent sway. In that situation, knowing what immediate action to take may make the difference. If an integrated brake controller can apply (only) the trailer brakes while the terrified driver (me) is trying to control the vehicle, that's a good thing!

Dave

[Keith Wire]

Originally Posted by MarkoPolo

Any suggestions for anti-sway greatly appreciated.
Mark

Mark, Have you weighed your rig yet? Do you know what your hitch weight to total trailer weight is?

The fold down Trailmanor campers rarely have any sway problems for two reasons: 1) They are lower so there is less surface area to be affected by strong crosswinds, and 2) They are designed to have a higher hitch (or tongue) weight, usually at least 12%.

We can't change 1) but how you load your TM can drastically change your hitch weight.

Most of us have NEVER experienced any sway with our TMs, so if you have I suggest you make a trip to the scales.

As I said I have not had any sway pulling my TM, but I have experienced first hand VIOLENT SWAY! We own a Hardware Store and a number of years ago I decided I could pick up our Christmas trees using my Ford Ranger pickup and my single axle utility trailer. We get about 100 trees and I had to make two trips... The first load I just stood back and let the guys at the nursery load the truck and trailer, then I strapped them down and took off. The nursery was in the country and I went slow (under 20MPH) until I got to the State highway. I pulled out on the highway and started accelerating. When I hit 45MPH the trailer started to sway; bad, real bad.

Soon, both the trailer and the pickup were sliding sideways down both lanes of the road. All I could do was go along for the ride. I was fortunate that there was no traffic coming in either direction. The road was empty, except for the trees that got shaken off all over both lanes of the road for about 100 yards.

When I came to a stop the truck and trailer were straight, but we were pointing toward the right ditch and now I was shaking... I straightened things up, pulled over on the shoulder and ran back to gather the trees I had lost, all 18 of them.

It took me a long time to calm down. I then analyzed the situation, and realized that my problem was HITCH WEIGHT. I realized that the guys at the nursery didn't how to load a trailer and they put the biggest heaviest Scotch Pine trees on the back of the trailer.

I unloaded and reloaded keeping in mind I needed at least 12% hitch weight. (I probably went too far the other way because it lifted the front wheels so steering was a little squirrely at 55 MPH...)

That was the last year I picked up the trees myself. I have them delivered now!

Anyway, If you don't know your weights (fully loaded camping weights) I suggest you make a trip to the scales. You may find the reason for your sway.

HTH, Keith

[MarkoPolo]

Bruce and Keith,
No, I have not weighed my rig yet. Honestly don't know where or how to do this! I do have the max tow package which does have heavier shocks and springs and I do have the LT tires. I do have a lot of "stuff" in the trailer and a fair amount in the pickup bed as well. I know the empty hitch weight is a lot more than my old Coleman Bayside ( it was 165 lbs) and I think it is about 435 lbs. empty. Because of the heavier hitch weight and other reports I was quite surprised by the sway.
So....where does one weigh ones "rig"? Do you weigh the whole shebang or do you weigh the truck and trailer separately? How do you find the hitch weight? And how much does this cost?
I have researched the Anderson "No-Sway" Weight distributing hitch and it looks interesting and a possible suitable "fix". Has anyone here used this hitch and what do you think of it?
Mark

[thewayneo]

I thoroughly appreciate this discussion. The rollover that I experienced (not a TM, just to be clear) was about 18 years ago but like yesterday in my memory. There was no single event that caused the sway-gone-crazy event, we were doing about 45 mph. However, the ambulance driver said he had seen about 30 similar trailer accidents in the same stretch of road. At two seconds into the sway, I let off the gas and applied the trailer brake, can't say it had any effect at all, and at 3 seconds we were rolling. I kept the front tires in the right lane 'til the end. Don't recall the brand or type brake control. Had Reese WD Hitch w/friction bar, in fact DUAL friction bars! Best that could be had in the day.

Marko: if I were you, I'd first check easy stuff like all 6 tire pressures (with a new gage), play in TM wheel bearings, TM axle alignment, heavy stuff on back (like a bike rack), is trailer level when hitched? AND THEN go get weighed after reading all the good how-to posts on the Forum. I went to a grain and feed store for mine, but also gravel yards do it, not expensive.

I wouldn't look at the WDH/Sway Control as a “fix”, maybe more like insurance. As others have said, a TM doesn't really want to sway, so if your's did 3 times something is out of whack, I think

On the Anderson Hitch, it looks good. This is all just my opinion, from my limited experience. When I first researched friction bar anti-sway, I could imagine how the friction would work to keep the trailer straight. But once sway occurs, it doesn't seem like it provides any assistance in returning to straight, maybe it would lessen the intensity of the sway. So then when I researched newer tech WDH/sway, the Equa-li-zer looked like it was similar to the bar (friction), but much improved. The Anderson design is more similar to the bar (friction material), also much improved. On the other hand, the Reese Dual Cam seems to have some assistance in returning to straight. I may have been tricked by good advertising and a good Denver trailer shop, but looking at the design I can see how it might work. So I am not endorsing one hitch over another, the Anderson has some really good features and I'd use it, and I also have a Equalizer that I like. Here's how Reese explains their's:

http://www.reese-hitches.com/learnin...trol-faq-types

wayne

Edit: Met a guy with a Scamp trailer at Walmart. He had installed a friction bar sway control and loved it!

I have towed my 2720 for 12,000 miles in the past two years. I have crossed the rockies twice and been on the road in near hurricane force winds with no other RV on the road. No sway. Not one instance.

I have a weight distribution hitch with no sway control and load my TM correctly to distribute the weight between the hitch and the tires.

There is something wrong with your TM brakes or you are loading it very rear end heavy. You need to fix the real problem.

Cheers, Peter

[Bill]

Originally Posted by MarkoPolo

Bruce and Keith,
No, I have not weighed my rig yet. Honestly don't know where or how to do this!
So....where does one weigh ones "rig"? Do you weigh the whole shebang or do you weigh the truck and trailer separately? How do you find the hitch weight? And how much does this cost?
Mark

Mark -

Weighing is easy and cheap. Although there are other alternatives, a good place to get this done is on a commercial scale called a CAT SCALE, which is often located at a truck stop. You can't miss it - look for the BIG yellow cat logo on one of the signs. The scale has a segmented concrete weighing platform, divided into three (sometimes four) concrete segments. You just drive onto the platform, putting the front wheels of your tow vehicle on the forward-most segment, the rear wheels of your tow vehicle on the second segment, and the trailer wheels on the third segment. All three will be weighed simultaneously, and the weights printed out. Cost is $9 or $10. Find a scale, and instructions on how to use it, at http://catscale.com/. There is one right in Greeley, and two others on I-25 near you.

Before you drive onto the platform, you should park and go inside to the CAT SCALE weight counter. Explain to the attendent (usually a cute young girl!) that you want to weigh your trailer and tow vehicle, and she will tell you to drive onto the platform, roll down your window, and wave when you are ready. The reason you need to do this is that the platform is equipped with an intercom and a push button to signal her, but they are both so high off the ground that you can't reach them when you are in your car. (They are set up for weighing big semi-trailer rigs). She will tell you by intercom when the weighing is done - you pull off the platform, go inside, and she will hand you the printed record.

fter you have weighed but are still on the platform, you can, if you like, get out of the car, crank down the tongue jack, disconnect the TM, and weigh again for only a couple bucks more. This gives you the total gross weight of the TM - the number that you compare to the "tow rating" of your tow vehicle. Or do it a third time, this time with the spring bars relaxed so that full TM tongue weight is on the hitch with no weight distribution. This allows you to see how much the front wheels are unweighted by the addition of the trailer on the hitch, and how much it is reduced when you crank up the springbars. Naturally, if you are going to do mutiple weighings, you need to tell the attendant beforehand.

On this forum, we have discussed weighing quite a few times. Here is one.
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=10958
Final answer? Just do it!

Bill