Towing TM with a Volvo

I'm thinking about buying a TrailManor (probably a 2720) but am concerned about the tongue weight - which appears to be about 350lb!

I would like to tow it with a Volvo XC60. In Europe, my XC60 can tow up to 4400 lb, but (for some strange reason) it can only tow 3300 in the US.

Provided I don't put too much weight (especially water!) in the trailer, I shouldn't have a problem with towing weight.

The real problem appears to be the tongue weight. The maximum permissible tongue weight for the vehicle is 160lb (and under 100lb is ideal.)

Is there a way of reducing the tongue weight of the 2720?

I note that the Toyota RAV4 can supposedly tow a TM, but the references I've seen for that vehicle suggest an optimum tongue weight of under 150lb.

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by Rupert_Baehr

I'm thinking about buying a TrailManor (probably a 2720) but am concerned about the tongue weight - which appears to be about 350lb!

I would like to tow it with a Volvo XC60. In Europe, my XC60 can tow up to 4400 lb, but (for some strange reason) it can only tow 3300 in the US.

Provided I don't put too much weight (especially water!) in the trailer, I shouldn't have a problem with towing weight.

The real problem appears to be the tongue weight. The maximum permissible tongue weight for the vehicle is 160lb (and under 100lb is ideal.)

Is there a way of reducing the tongue weight of the 2720?

I note that the Toyota RAV4 can supposedly tow a TM, but the references I've seen for that vehicle suggest an optimum tongue weight of under 150lb.

Ouch.

I have no experience with your vehicle. I've had great success with my Toyota Highlander, and I'll be the first to say that tow ratings are guidelines and not so black and white, having a bit of gray around them. It doesn't surprise me that the ratings are done differently in Europe since ratings depend on many unknowable factors and are not really done the same anywhere. But I think you'll find that the 2720 will weigh close to 4000# on the road with a tongue weight that's nearly 500#. Here are my scale numbers and the discussion that followed: http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=10652

With a weight distributing hitch and an abundance of caution you can make progress. But safety requires 7% to 15% of the trailer weight on the tongue, and that means you really want that 400-500# tongue weight for a 4000# trailer (without a Weight Distributing Hitch and a 2" Class III hitch receiver, I'm not sure I would tow a TrailManor across the parking lot).

I'm a big fan of actual owner towing experience. Try a search of this forum on "Volvo".

[Bill]

Sad to say, I think Mr. A is right. Your Volvo is not particularly close, in any category, to being able to tow a TM.

First, it sounds like you are working from TM's published dry weight for a 2720SL. But dry weight is not the weight of the trailer you will be towing. Your TM will undoubtedly have several factory-installed accessories which add to the towed weight - think air conditioner, awning, and battery, for example, and possibly a swing tongue. Then you will put all your stuff inside the trailer - think clothes, food, dishes, tools, books, TV, and so forth. With some effort, you can keep the towed weight under 4000 pounds, but not very far under.

As for hitch weight, the Volvo is not even in the right ball park. To prevent uncontrolled trailer sway, the recommendation of all trailer professionals, whether RV/camping trailers or not, is that 10-15% of the gross weight should be on the tongue. I've never seen a number as low as 7%, but Mr. A knows his stuff, so he probably has. The specific number for a TM is about 14% - this is the result of mounting the axle farther back under the frame than usual, to eliminate sway. As a result, no sway control devices are needed. But you can do the math, and 14% of 3800 pounds (if you can get that low) is still over 500 pounds.

Finally, when most auto manufacturers specifiy a tow rating for their vehicle, there is usually a clever little asterisk. The asterisk says that the tow rating applies to a vehicle with no cargo, and only a driver. If you plan on adding passengers and/or cargo of any type, you must subtract their weight from the tow rating. In other words, if you add a 175-pound adult and 300 pounds of cargo, you must subtract 475 pounds from the published tow rating. The Volvo web site does not show such an asterisk, but I would be awfully careful about assuming it is not there, and do some homework first.

As for the RAV4, the 1500/150 pound tow rating applies to the base model with a tiny 4-cylinder engine and no towing package. I don't think anyone would try to tow with this. When you add a V-6 engine to make it comparable to your Volvo, and an optional towing package, the rating rises to 3500 pounds. I still think this is very marginal, and I think the short wheelbase (comparable to the Volvo) is a problem. Not everyone agrees with me - but we are discussing Volvos here, not Toyotas, so for this discussion, perhaps it doesn't matter.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but safety is important.

Bill

Thanks for the replies, Mr A and Bill.

I suspect that the towing weight limit in Europe may be higher because towing speeds are lower - 50mph (and enforced stringently!) European travel trailers tend to be far lighter than those in the US (ac is almost unheard of, for a start.)

The Volvo has a built-in anti-sway system - which would probably help a bit. The comments on Volvo towing were interesting (The XC 90 is the 60's big brother.)

I will contact Volvo and talk to them about it, but as you both suggest, even if I can get a towing package which increases the permissible tongue weight, it's likely that the towed weight will put a lot of strain on the towing vehicle. (The XC60 has a tiptronic gearbox, so I'm not stuck with an automatic transmission but even so, it would probably be hard work.)

Given that I would be using the trailer for recreational purposes, making life difficult by assembling a rig which is difficult to drive would defeat the object.

I did consider a RAV4 with the 3.5 engine, but the short wheelbase put me off.

Thanks again for your replies,

Rupert

[cochise]

Originally Posted by Rupert_Baehr

Thanks for the replies, Mr A and Bill.

I suspect that the towing weight limit in Europe may be higher because towing speeds are lower - 50mph (and enforced stringently!) European travel trailers tend to be far lighter than those in the US (ac is almost unheard of, for a start.)

The Volvo has a built-in anti-sway system - which would probably help a bit. The comments on Volvo towing were interesting (The XC 90 is the 60's big brother.)

I will contact Volvo and talk to them about it, but as you both suggest, even if I can get a towing package which increases the permissible tongue weight, it's likely that the towed weight will put a lot of strain on the towing vehicle. (The XC60 has a tiptronic gearbox, so I'm not stuck with an automatic transmission but even so, it would probably be hard work.)

Given that I would be using the trailer for recreational purposes, making life difficult by assembling a rig which is difficult to drive would defeat the object.

I did consider a RAV4 with the 3.5 engine, but the short wheelbase put me off.

Thanks again for your replies,

Rupert

May I put in my 2 cents worth?

A tow package does NOT increase the tongue weight limit. It usually consist of a larger alternator, an external or bigger build-in transmission cooler and the wiring harness needed for hooking up the trailer. And the anti sway system you mention is for the tow vehicle (Volvo) only. TM has placed the single axle on their trailers further back than other manufacturers. This placement acts as a sway stabilizer on the trailer, which is what will be “swaying” under certain conditions and speeds. Also since most cars and SUV’s today are front wheel driven, you’ll pay for the extra wear on the front wheel tires if that 500 lb weight is put on the rear of the vehicle. Remember that the hitch is also a fulcrum. The further rearward the weight is the less it takes to lift the front end. Listen to the members above they have it right.

[Mr. Adventure]

- I've had several different kinds of RV's over a lot of years besides the TM (3 popups, a 29' TT, and a 37' Winnebago). I like towables because I don't have to maintain an extra motorhome (truck) powertrain that spends most of it's life parked in a storage yard.

- If you want to drive a vehicle that's reasonably competent at towing 4000 pounds, for me it has to be competently on the road weighing more than that. Driving a lighter vehicle therefore means towing a lighter trailer. Does this mean I wouldn't tow an 8,000 pound trailer with a less than 8,000 pound tow vehicle? Yeah, it probably does. Would I consider towing my TrailManor with a Volvo XC60 (GVWR 5300#)? Probably, but I'd want to know all about why the tow rating is only 3300# (transmission issue?). The tongue weight question is not getting the right answers, because you'd want 350# of tongue weight for towing 3300# (perhaps the hitch receiver attach points aren't solid enough to support a 500# tongue).

- For the purpose of travelling, there is a major diseconomy of scale in large RVs. Large RVs are great for parking somewhere for long periods of time, but that ambitious grand voyage of discovery is less expensive, more fun, and less hassle in a smaller RV.

- Driving slower helps everything about towing (safety, powertrain stress, horsepower requirements, fuel economy, and the shock loads from hitting bumps in the road). Driving faster makes everything worse in an exponential way.

Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure

- Driving slower helps everything about towing (safety, powertrain stress, horsepower requirements, fuel economy, and the shock loads from hitting bumps in the road). Driving faster makes everything worse in an exponential way.

I agree with the premise of this, but there is a limit to how slow you can go before you become a safety hazard.
Using normal 70mph Interstate speed limit, I would say you would want to maintain at least 55mph, with reserve power to pass if required.
I understand that 40mph is the MINIMUM speed limit on most Interstates, which is too low and dangerous in my opinion.

[Mr. Adventure]

In practical terms, I mean that the 70+ that people often drive in cars is inappropriate for towing. It exceeds the ratings of our trailer tires, for instance.

I also mean that the envelope is substantially wider at 55 than at 65, no matter what you're driving. If you're pushing the edge of the envelope for a powertrain or a load, 65 vs 55 would give you a 39% increase in wind resistance. 55 vs 65 provides a 40% reduction in stopping distance, for a couple examples. I would also offer the practical observation that anybody who's ever owned an RV or towed a trailer quickly learns that the faster you go the less stable on the road the rig becomes, requiring more care and attention to keep it in the lane (probably by these same kinds of percentages).

40% is a big number, dwarfing vehicle to vehicle comparison data. It would probably place a panic stop from 55 without trailer brakes in the same ballpark as a panic stop from 65 with a properly operating vehicle (I'm not going to try this just to prove a message board point, however).

It seems like we have a fatal RV accident every year on the nearby sections of Interstate 64, a very straight 70mph highway with very moderate grades and turns. This year's event was a one vehicle accident involving the loss of control by a Freightliner towing a big travel trailer. What could be safer? The accident was because a driver wasn't putting enough attention into his vehicle and conditions, but the fatality part was because no one in the vehicle was wearing seat belts!