Off road/rough road handling

Originally Posted by Pierak706

We have not used my new TM yet (2720SL).
I have been reading the forum, and from some of the posts, it seems that the TM has problems on rough roads. The problems I have read about are:
1. Stuff working itself loose (tables, ovens, etc.)
2. Uncomfortable ride in the TV
3. Dust all over

I'm not really concerned with #3, I'm willing to clean the dust off.
But I would like to avoid #1 and 2.
We went on a 4 month trip to Alaska (from Georgia) with an Aliner in 2008, on some pretty rough roads, and we had a couple of things getting loose, but no problem with the TV ride. We would like to repeat the experience at some point in the future, so rough road handling is going to be important.
I would love to hear what strategies you have used to improve these problems; also, since next year we will probably buy a new TV, what would be the best choice?
I feel I'm taking advantage of everybody's expertise right now, I promise I will try to contribute something useful as soon as we actually go camping in the TM!

I have only 16 miles of rough road to my credit with the TM. Enough to make me not want to do it unless I have to. Nothing fell or came loose. Used to tow a Coleman Santa Fe pop-up that did not care where I towed it nor how fast. Have lots of rough road experience with that. No problems. But the TM seems to be a bit fragile for off road. Give Larsdenart a PM and get his input. He rock climbs in his. ( Well sort of ... ) I sealed the gaps in the shell / box area as follows. Check the space between your shells and box when closed. Your seals may be tight enough to keep out the dust. If not you can use those black pipe insulation sticks that you can get at home depot to close the gap. I keep straps in the cab just in case the latches fail. TV is a dedicated vehicle, see signature. Best advise I have is to go slow and beef up the tires if you have not already. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

[rickst29]

#1. Don't run your TM tires at the "maximum cold PSI" marked on the sidewall. Instead, take your setup to a weight station, and find out the loading on the tires. You can weight the axle and divide by two, but it would be a useful learning experience to weight each of the TM tires individually. (Use the results to adjust your loading technique, keeping the load on the two tires in balance.)

Of curse, this measurement is taken with WDH cinched up, and with the TM loaded with "typical" travel contents. (Be sure to fill the water tank, if you'll be driving on rough roads with water tank filled -- something which you should avoid, if you can. Water is over 8 lbs per gallon, it's over 330 lbs to fill my 40 gallon tank and water lines.)

Then, use your tire manufacturer's "tire loading versus PSI table" to look up the recommended PSI for that loading. Add only 5 lbs of additional "safety factor".
- - - - -
Typical result? My 15" Marathon tires, on a heavily loaded 2619, should be pumped up to only 45-50 lbs. That's according to Goodyear, and they know their tires. The sidewall max is 65 lbs, and using that figure will shake your contents (and torflex axle) in the manner of Fred Flintstone's vehicle. Lots of TM owners just pump their tires to the max, and old TM manuals used to say that in the instructions. (I don't know if they still do.) Legally safer for them, but not really the right thing to do.

#2. Slow Down!

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by rickst29

Typical result? My 15" Marathon tires, on a heavily loaded 2619, should be pumped up to only 45-50 lbs. That's according to Goodyear, and they know their tires. The sidewall max is 65 lbs, and using that figure will shake your contents (and torflex axle) in the manner of Fred Flintstone's vehicle. Lots of TM owners just pump their tires to the max, and old TM manuals used to say that in the instructions. (I don't know if they still do.) Legally safer for them, but not really the right thing to do.

[/B]

The reason that TM used to recommend max PSI was because they originally used 14" tires that were typically maxed out when in service. Since switching to 15" tires with a higher rating (which they should have done 10 years ago) it has become less critical to run at max PSI.

As you stated........it is important to get the rig weighed so that one is using the correct values in the calculation as apposed to using the trailers "Dry weight" (as so many do) or guesstimating.

[ShrimpBurrito]

Perhaps wmtire can pitch in here, but it is my understanding that the tire weight tables are not established by individual manufacturers, but rather an industry trade group (Tire and Rim Association?).

Here is an example of such a table: http://www.maxxis.com/Repository/Files/m8008load.pdf

Dave

[rickst29]

Yes Dave: A reply from WMtire will absolutely rule on this issue. And you could very well be right about this: Your table, from Maxxis, is identical to Goodyear's table in all the figures which appear in both tables. (the Maxxis table doesn't go down to 15; and the Goodyear table doesn't go up to include Load Range "E" - because they don't make 'em.)

Wayne- I had the impression that TM has long recommended 65 PSI on those models which came with 15" tires standard- e.g., 3124. I've been talking (yelling?) about this for years. Do you know whether they recommend "tuned PSI" to owners of new 2619/2720 Trailers with15" tires, or do they still say "65 PSI"? (If anyone knows, please chime in.)

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by rickst29

Yes Dave: A reply from WMtire will absolutely rule on this issue. And you could very well be right about this: Your table, from Maxxis, is identical to Goodyear's table in all the figures which appear in both tables. (the Maxxis table doesn't go down to 15; and the Goodyear table doesn't go up to include Load Range "E" - because they don't make 'em.)

Wayne- I had the impression that TM has long recommended 65 PSI on those models which came with 15" tires standard- e.g., 3124. I've been talking (yelling?) about this for years. Do you know whether they recommend "tuned PSI" to owners of new 2619/2720 Trailers with15" tires, or do they still say "65 PSI"? (If anyone knows, please chime in.)

I really don't know. It might be interesting to hear from the owner of a newer model with an Owners Manual.

My impression of TM (the manufacturer) is that they are very slow to make changes (including problem solving) and when they do, it seems to "Rock-the-boat" at the assembly plant. It seems like the employees just want to go in and do the same thing that they've been doing for years and don't appreciate change much.

It would not surprise me at all if it took 2-3 years to update the Owners Manual about tire specs. However, now that it has been brought up here, they may do it sooner. I firmly believe that they finally switched to 15" tires based on all of the (negative) info on this forum (which is available to all of their potential customers). It's not the past customers that they care about, it's what their past customers "Say" on this forum that can definitely have an effect on their sales.....and I'm sure they know it.

I have NO DOUBT that all of the negative posts about the Elkmont, on this forum, has had a negative effect on their sales.........if they don't realize that....they are in for some big trouble. Businesses that do not pay attention to their customers do not survive in todays climate.

But like I said before, if the height of a 15 inch wheel is at all taller than a 14 inch wheel, and if you have the low profile roof a/c, then it will be too tall to fit in a garage with a 7 foot door. I have 1/4 inch vertical clearance.

Very few tract home have a garage door taller than 7 feet.

I have considered lowering the tire pressure to lower the TM height, but I doubt it is good to store it for several months with low tire pressure, and I have it so close to the wall that I can not get to one tire at all to re-inflate it and then let the air out on the next trip.

[ShrimpBurrito]

Originally Posted by PopBeavers

I have considered lowering the tire pressure to lower the TM height, but I doubt it is good to store it for several months with low tire pressure,

Actually, just today I was reading a tire care by Carlisle and they said storing tires at lower pressures can help extend service life. See the bottom of page 7 of this PDF:

http://www.carlisletire.com/product_...vice_guide.pdf

Dave

Wayne et. al. I have found that I can completely lift the wheels of my TM off the floor when in storage. I retract the tongue jack as much as possible, then lower the rear stabilizers as much as possible. Then extend the tongue jack as much as possible, and lower the front stabilizers as much as possible. Then you can retract the tongue jack and swing the tongue if you have that feature, as all of the weight will now be on the stabilizers. The tires will wind up about 1/2" off the ground. Among other things, it would allow you to lower the pressure in your tires and store the TM that way without damaging the tires. Of course, this assumes that the stabilizers on your TM are the newer version designed to support the entire weight of the TM. Hey, works for me!

I thought about doing something like that.

I can not get to the rear street side jack when it is in the garage, because I have the rear backed up to the wall and the street side is up against another wall.

What I could do is stop a foot short, so that the tongue wheel is on the nearly level garage floor instead of the sloping driveway. I could then disconnect and lower the tongue down and then lower the rear street jack so it is just above the floor, then push the TM in the last foot by hand. Then crank up the tongue until that corner jack just touches the floor. Then lower the other rear jack until it also just touches the floor. Then use the tongue jack to raise the front up, taking the weight off of the partly deflated tires. Then set the front corner jacks, I can get to both of them. Then I can swing the tongue around.

For someone that tries to go camping once a month from February until October, that is a lot of work. The only practical solution for me is to not allow the diameter of an inflated tire increase. To go to 15 inch wheels I would need a low profile tire, which, if it existed, would, I think, defeat the entire reason for going to a 15 inch wheel. A 15 inch wheel with a low profile tire would actually contain less air in the tire, which would likely increase the problem of heat in the tires.