Wdh

[Lesherp]

I didn't know Trailmanor recommended a WDH. For me that changes everything. My inclination has always been to get one anyway. I always thought I would be able to figure out a way to make the 15" tires work. Keith, thanks for the information about how much the 15" changed your height of your trailer. I am almost positive now it will work. I plan on getting them this week along with a WDH.

Does anyone know for sure if any of these will work with the swing tongue?

http://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distr...ite/49570.html

http://www.reese-hitches.com/product...nion_Bars,7902

http://www.reese-hitches.com/product..._800_lb_,49569

http://www.reese-hitches.com/product..._800_lb_,49586

http://www.reese-hitches.com/categor...lb_Hitches,815

http://www.reese-hitches.com/product..._200_lb_,49570

http://www.rvtruckparts.com/Productd...&DID=44&SID=69

http://www.rvtruckparts.com/Productd...&DID=44&SID=69

Originally Posted by harveyrv

...the WDH does contribute to higher dead weight....

I have been looking at my spreadsheet of weighings now that I finally have a chance to really digest it and I have some thoughts that are related to this. In my case the WDH increases the trailer axle load by 5% (160 pounds). That is not negligible but it isn't dramatic when the tires themselves are loaded at 60% or rated capacity. (Insert discussion of metal stems, domestic vs foreign rubber, etc here).

The huge payoff though comes on the TV side of things (duh). Prior to hitch up, my loaded truck had a 54/46 Front/Rear balance. After loading with very light tension on the WDH, it was 44/56. The front axle was 300 pounds (10%) lighter despite ~700 pound (10%) increase in total weight between the two TV axles. After fully tensioning the WDH, 240 pounds of the lost weight had been restored to the front axle and the balance was now 49/51. The rear axle had lightened by 400 pounds: 240 to the front axle, and 160 to the TM axle.

Originally Posted by harveyrv

...and higher shock loading on the trailer tires....

This is where we get into massive conjecture area. I haven't seen any data on "shock loading". This strikes me as a gut thing figuring that there isn't such thing as a free lunch and this must be where we pay for our lunch. If you have data, I would like to see it because I am curious on this. There are quite a few springs in the system to prevent huge spikes but I can't begin to analytically treat this consideration. I guess we can put this into the category of known unknowns.

The known unknown that I would like to figure out would concern articulation factors. Perhaps this is what you are getting at when you refer to shock loading but what I would like to see is how axle-by-axle weights would change with high articulation. For example. If the TV/TM combo were to drive through steep approach/exit dips (like creek-bed crossings) how do the axle-by-axle weights shift as you pass through it. Granted these are low speed maneuvers but I would be interested in the magnitude of load redistribution here. Perhaps Popbeavers and Larsdennert have data on this as those guys tend to be our X Gamers. Do they loosen/disconnect the WDH once they hit the fire-trails and desert dunes?

We need someone to instrument up their TM/TV combo and gather 40-50 channels worth of data. I nominate you!

Originally Posted by Lesherp

Does anyone know for sure if any of these will work with the swing tongue?

I have a 1000 pound Pro-Eagle WDH that looks to be the model shown in the link you posted. I have a swing hitch and there is no interference with my WDH.

BTW, the model number as printed on the WDH is the unsophisticated but easy to remember "1000#".

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by M&M Hokie

I have been looking at my spreadsheet of weighings now that I finally have a chance to really digest it and I have some thoughts that are related to this. In my case the WDH increases the trailer axle load by 5% (160 pounds). That is not negligible but it isn't dramatic when the tires themselves are loaded at 60% or rated capacity. (Insert discussion of metal stems, domestic vs foreign rubber, etc here).

The huge payoff though comes on the TV side of things (duh). Prior to hitch up, my loaded truck had a 54/46 Front/Rear balance. After loading with very light tension on the WDH, it was 44/56. The front axle was 300 pounds (10%) lighter despite ~700 pound (10%) increase in total weight between the two TV axles. After fully tensioning the WDH, 240 pounds of the lost weight had been restored to the front axle and the balance was now 49/51. The rear axle had lightened by 400 pounds: 240 to the front axle, and 160 to the TM axle.



This is where we get into massive conjecture area. I haven't seen any data on "shock loading". This strikes me as a gut thing figuring that there isn't such thing as a free lunch and this must be where we pay for our lunch. If you have data, I would like to see it because I am curious on this. There are quite a few springs in the system to prevent huge spikes but I can't begin to analytically treat this consideration. I guess we can put this into the category of known unknowns.

The known unknown that I would like to figure out would concern articulation factors. Perhaps this is what you are getting at when you refer to shock loading but what I would like to see is how axle-by-axle weights would change with high articulation. For example. If the TV/TM combo were to drive through steep approach/exit dips (like creek-bed crossings) how do the axle-by-axle weights shift as you pass through it. Granted these are low speed maneuvers but I would be interested in the magnitude of load redistribution here. Perhaps Popbeavers and Larsdennert have data on this as those guys tend to be our X Gamers. Do they loosen/disconnect the WDH once they hit the fire-trails and desert dunes?

We need someone to instrument up their TM/TV combo and gather 40-50 channels worth of data. I nominate you!

I have seen no hard data but it's just a common sense thing (for me) with my background.

It's not the slow speed maneuvers that causes me concern. It's the highways that normally set-up "hobby horsing" in any vehicle. I have found with the WDH, that "hobby horsing" is largely reduced or elliminated..........Where did it go???

If you look at 18 wheelers going down the same road, you still see the cab doing the same "hobby horsing". My feeling is.......if one were to take a video of the rear axle of a vehicle towing a trailer w/o a WDH, you would see the rear-end of the TV bouncing up & down as the weight goes over the rises in the road. I think that viewing the same set-up with the WDH properly installed, we may see that the axle of the TV goes up & down but the rear of the TV may stay more even. (at least that has been my experience). This means that each time the TV axle "Drops" there must be shock-loading (or maybe better described as "torquing") transferred to the trailer axle via the WDH (as well as the TV front axle). This shock loading comes from the weight of the TV and it's contents as gravity and inertia do their jobs. The larger, longer and heavier the TV, the more weight that is transferred (to the limit of the WDH hitch spring bars)..

Does that make sense to anyone but me?????

Now.......this is not a "Bad" thing if the trailer tires can handle the excess load.

I have a swing hitch and the WDH I linked in my post on page 1 works fine with it. It is a 1200# bar setup, but I bet they have the same hitch with the bars you want.
This is the hitch the local TM dealer recommended. (The Car Show) Since they sold it I guess they would recommend it!! I asked for lighter bars and they talked me out of it saying they had tried them all and the 1200# had the best results. Opinions differ of course. FWIW

The only time I noticed a stiffer ride on my Tundra was when I didn't have it setup properly. Rides pretty much the same as when it's not towing as far as stiffness.

I'm sure the "shock loading" is there, but is the "loading" when hitting a dip that much different between 1200# and 800# bars? I doubt it. Certainly it's a bigger difference with no WDH. That said, I did go to 15" tires so I would not have to worry about it.

A good thread I have enjoyed reading. Thanks

[Wavery]

I suppose that the ultimate WDH for our rigs would be about a 6,000# rated WDH. If everything else on the vehicles (tires, frames, axles, suspension trailer hitch etc) were rated to handle it one should (theoretically) be able to tension that sucker up, remove the tires from the rear of the TV and just have a 2-axle vehicle with a 250" wheel base and a pivot in the middle.

It's all about checking all of the ratings on all of the components that are effected by the WDH. If your particular rig can handle all of the stresses, the higher rating WDH, the better. The only thing that changes is the distribution of the load to different points on both the TV and the trailer.

A 800# rated WDH will distribute 50% less load than a 1200# WDH. Therefore, all of the stresses involved would be less but the effectiveness would be less also. It's a tricky balancing act and every single rig will be different based on wheel base, load on the TV, where that load is located, tongue weight, etc. There is no "Ideal" WDH for any TM. It's just more complicated than that and it involves the TV as much (if not more) than the trailer.

[commodor47]

I have been following several threads with information on WD hitches. A few years back an interesting post on RV.net by Ron Gratz used the physics of a fulcrum to nicely explain how the WD system works.

http://www.rv.net/FORUM/index.cfm/fu...g/1/page/1.cfm

Dick

[Mr. Adventure]

Keith,
I am a strong believer that the WDH is a necessity for 99%+ of us. The weight numbers from people with full sized pickups are showing that 500# on the tongue can take 200# off the front and put 700# on the back axle of the TV (speaking in round numbers). So the exceptions would be tow vehicles with an extra 700# to spare aft and so heavy up front that losing 200# is no big deal.

The 14" tires have a much lower load rating than the 15" tires, and many of our members report heavily laden 2720's and lots of 14" tire blowouts. I don't remember people talking much about 15" sudden tire failures (I think my 15's are rated 2500# each, so I'm loading them way, way below their ratings). Others have been speculating on this same connection for some time. My point is that the additional weight from the WDH on the trailer axle may be unwelcome with the 2720 TMs, even when the tire loads are simply approaching, but not actually over, the 14" tire ratings.

The 15" tires should raise the trailer about 1/2 inch, if they are otherwise built about the same as the 14's, and they seem like a good idea to me for those who can make it work.

[Lesherp]

It seems indecision can sometimes work to your advantage. I could not decide what WDH to get 800# or 1,000#. I went to a garage sale on Friday and found Draw Tite hitch and got both 750# and 1,000# bars for $130.

I am still not sure what I need but once I get all my gear together for camping I should have all the flexibility I may need. The only thing I feel I want to do before i start doing serious traveling is get some 15" tires.

I still have a number of things I want to do based on all of your innovative ideas on how to make the TM an even better living environment.

It is so nice to have a site where people with things in common can share information. I can't tell you how much all of your comments and advise have been appreciated.

That's great! I look forward to reading your impressions of the 2 different bars.