Realistic Power "System" upgrade.

[Fasterskis]

New TrailManor owners here trying to sort out our best options for the complete power system. I have searched and read a lot on the questions that I have but would like a "modern" reply on some of the subjects. A lot of the answers were 5-15 years old.

Our 2008 TM 2720SL appears to be bone stock. I would guess It has about 5000 miles on it. We hope to use it 3 seasons primarily in Northern Michigan for golf, biking, hiking and kiteboarding. In many of the ideal situations we will be dry camping and so a decent power system will be important. We're not looking to put a lot of money into the system. $500-$750 range if that's do-able? Not real interested in Solar probably more likely to spend that money on a generator.

Fair warning I'm not an electrician. I know what a multimeter is but hardly know how to use it!

Our questions start with the battery. Previous owner put in a Dura Cell Marine battery. It's fairly new but I realize that's not what we need. The 2720SL has the battery box inside the rear compartment. What would be a good solid basic battery? Something a little better than stock maybe? Is there an ideal new tech solution we should consider? I realize the battery selection might change based on some of our other possible changes.

WFCO Power Center WF-8955AN-P Any reason this needs to be upgraded?

Power inverter? Seems like it would be nice to have when dry camping but is the increased battery cost prohibitive?

Generator? Seems like a simple answer but is their usage frowned upon or not permitted? What is the means of hook up for powering the camper vs just charging batteries?

Battery disconnect? Why do I need that.

Battery Tender? I like the idea of hooking up the tender to the Bargman connector. Is that still a good idea? I can successfully handle that wiring!

Amp voltmeter Battery Meter? seems like a no brainer, but I dont know anything about them. Basic needs vs extra frills. Brands

30 amp Surge Protector - Is there an obvious choice here. I like the Hughes with blue tooth connection to your phone but is a $300 model that much better than a $100 model.

50amp to 30amp converter and 30amp extension cords- Do many people carry these?

I realize that I can keep reading and find recent answers to these questions but we are really hoping someone is feeling generous with the time to help some newbies. We are also busy trying to figure out if my business can survive an extended shut down and if my employees will come back and all the headaches that no one ever could have imagined. My business is a small digital print shop in Michigan during Shelter in Place lock down.

[Bill]

You’ve asked a lot of good questions. And fortunately, you have given us a lot of information about your must-haves and like-to-haves. Now you need to prioritize. Most of your questions can be answered at a point in the future, as time and budget become available. But some are more fundamental, and have long-lasting implications. You would like to do them right the first time.

To me, the biggest drivers are
o Limited budget
o Lots of boondocking
o Camping in upper Michigan
I was born in the UP, and spent quite a bit of time there as a kid. It is a beautiful area, but I know that summers can get rather hot and sticky. That means you will want to run the air conditioner, often for several hours a day. And since you will be boondocking, that means you need a generator.

There are two kinds of generators - contractor (open frame) generators, and inverter generators. The only advantage of contractor generators is that they are cheap. On the down side, they are extremely noisy - they are meant for construction sites, where noise doesn’t matter. They burn a lot of fuel. They run at full speed even when you need only a little power. And the exhaust fumes are often pretty smelly. By contrast, inverter generators are very quiet. They are fuel efficient. They slow down when less power is needed, then speed up when the load increases. Their downside is that they are more expensive - an inverter generator will challenge your budget right away.

I urge you not to buy a contractor generator. You will be boondocking because you like the quiet of the outdoors, and you will very quickly come to hate the noise of a contractor generator. Just as important, your neighbors will come to hate you, for the same reason. If you invest in a contractor generator, you will most likely decide you want to upgrade within a year, and then a good portion of your initial investment is lost. Better to step up right away.

When inverter generators were first introduced, the only manufacturer was Honda, and they are still considered the Cadillac. But in the intervening years, several other manufacturers have begun making them. I think of Yamaha, Westinghouse, Predator, Power Max, and others. Honda still tends to be the most expensive, so if you use an online Google search, you can find some that are a bit less. This Forum has a lot of discussion of inverter generators, including some very valuable testing and comparison. Use the Forum Search tool to find some professional-grade testing and comparison by a member named Padgett.

What size generator will you need? Two thousand watts seems to be one of the standard values. For running an air conditioner (or more accurately, for reliably starting one), a 2000 watt generator is not quite adequate. You can either move up a step, to 3000 watts, or you can add what is called an Easy Start or Soft Start device to your air conditioner. (Padgett also did an exhaustive evaluation of the Easy Start/Soft Start mod.) The bigger generator will handle the A/C easily. Most of our members who have tried the Easy Start mod have had good luck, though it does not leave much excess power to run other things.

Incidentally, solar power is not useful for running an air conditioner, so your decision not to add solar to your TM is not an issue.

So my advice is to attack this choice first. Other things will be easier to quantify, and I urge you not to do the "chaep and easy" things first. You may not be pleased that you did so. When their time comes, we will help you along the way.

Bill

[rickst29]

are not necessarily the the right choices for you, but they are "modern" - because I keep changing my mind.

Originally Posted by Fasterskis

We're not looking to put a lot of money into the system. $500-$750 range if that's do-able? Not real interested in Solar probably more likely to spend that money on a generator....

Our questions start with the battery. Previous owner put in a Dura Cell Marine battery. It's fairly new but I realize that's not what we need.

Lead-Acid Battery technology hasn't changed much, all of those comments from previous years are relevant. But I would start by making an estimate for how much power you actually need to use, each day. Some people (jncluding me) are very "piggy", running CPAP machines and stereo systems and even TVs. Other people go to bed early, run the fridge on propane, and hardly even turn on the lights. They can get by with less battery storage.

With that said, the "classical" upgrade for Trailmanor 3720 batteries is to switch from generic mult-use "marine batteries" (they're a poor compromise, built for both starting gas engines at high current AND running lower current things) to a pure deep-cycle battery. Many TMO persons love the Trojan 6-Volt "golf cart" batteries, model T-105, which are wired in series and do fit that battery compartment. They are genuine deep cycle, and can be discharged (used) more deeply overnight. They also store 225Ah, while most group-24 12V batteries 12V only store about 90Ah each (and it's difficult to find a genuine deep cycle battery in G24 size).

Originally Posted by Fasterskis

WFCO Power Center WF-8955AN-P Any reason this needs to be upgraded?

Yes, it needs an upgrade. (I feel this to be a very high priority for you.) Within the WFCO "Power Center" from those years (mine was 2006, your is 2008 - still roughly the same machine), the power converter board is terrible. To enjoy highest performance and longest lifespan, Lead-Acid batteries should be kept near 100% State-Of-Charge in all periods of storage. And of course, if you're willing to discharge them to about 50% SOC, starting from 100% gives you 50% usable. With the WFCO power converter, the batteries will never reach more than 85% - damaging lifespan, and cutting your 'usable capacity" by almost 1/3.

You replace only the power converter board at the bottom - leaving the WFCO 120V circuit breakers, and 120V wiring, 12V power distribution board and all it's fuses and connections - intact. Only the three input 120V wires to the board (hot, current carrying neutral white, and green/yellow/naked safety ground) get replaced in the input side. Only two output need to be disconnected from the old board "+12 VDC" black into the 12V power distribution board, and "DC Ground" white into a DC Grounding Bus Bar. I own and love this one: http://www.bestconverter.com/PD-4655...te-_p_677.html, but this one is a slightly newer model and very similar: http://www.bestconverter.com/PD-4655...nt-_p_676.html. You must pay the extra $20 for the Lithium-Capable new models (don't buy the cheaper old ones), and you want that "remote pendant" - you need it when you're recharging from a Generator. It allows you to force "Boost Mode" (or "Bulk Mode", your choice) for a larger portion of the charging process, saving time and saving gas. Buy only from that site, he's factory authorized. Amazon and Ebay sellers are NOT authorized, warranty and service issues become a mess.

I have an additional note: with these GREAT power converters, the wire size between batteries and the "DC Load Center" needs to be increased (from #8 or #10, up to #6) and the fuse for that wire needs to be replaced by an 80A circuit breaker. Although rated for only 55A, my "Wildkat" Converter puts out more than 64A of continuous power (into Lithium, low-resistance batteries).

Originally Posted by Fasterskis

Power inverter? Seems like it would be nice to have when dry camping but is the increased battery cost prohibitive?

Unless you have some low-power 120V devices which must be used during your trips, skip this. But note: electric toothbrush, "smart" cellphone chargers, computers need just a small one (around 400W "maximum power"). By pure sine wave, not "modified sine wave" junk.

Originally Posted by Fasterskis

Generator? Seems like a simple answer but is their usage frowned upon or not permitted? What is the means of hook up for powering the camper vs just charging batteries?

Generators are a necessary evil in boondocking without Solar or other power schemes. The correct type, an "inverter/generator", runs at variable speed according to demand - they use less gas and they're less noisy. But they cost more. This add-on will blow your estimated budget, by a lot. Generators connect into the 120V power cord - usually requiring an adapter. They have "pretend" 12V charger ports, but they work WAY faster, and control the battery much better, by depending on the power Converter to do the conversion.

Originally Posted by Fasterskis

Battery disconnect? Why do I need that?....Battery Tender? I like the idea of hooking up the tender to the Bargman connector. Is that still a good idea? I can successfully handle that wiring!

The new circuit breaker along the #6 wire to the "load center" is the battery disconnect. But you don't need to use it, if you keep the new converter connected in storage. Those new PD power converters are nearly the equal of any battery tender. You can save $30-40 bucks by using the inverter, and skipping the "Battery Tender" purchase.

Originally Posted by Fasterskis

Amp voltmeter Battery Meter? seems like a no brainer, but I don't know anything about them. Basic needs vs extra frills.

Your TM already includes a basic "voltage only" battery meter (at the kitchen sink ledge). To know what really goes on with your batteries, you would need to upgrade into a "coulomb counter" type of monitor (they measure actual power-in and power-out. This one, using at least the 100A shunt. For only $5 more, I'd buy the 350A version (compatible with a future Lithium and Inverter Upgrade): https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-80V-50A.../264451968056/

Originally Posted by Fasterskis

30 amp Surge Protector - Is there an obvious choice here. I like the Hughes with blue tooth connection to your phone but is a $300 model that much better than a $100 model.

I've read stories of people having some expensive equipment saved by these things (when campground power gets hit by lightning, but I've never put one in. It depends on how much stuff you've got. Our member Bruce, with many thousands of dollars of nearly unreplaceable radio equipment, would be crazy to go without one. I've got much less "stuff", just an expensive refrigerator.

Originally Posted by Fasterskis

50amp to 30amp converter and 30amp extension cords- Do many people carry these?

A dogbone (30A TM compatible socket into 50A "plug") costs only $10-20, and might come in handy somewhere. They connect one of the 25A "hot" wires straight through, while leaving the other disconnected. You theoretically lose 5A, but it shouln't matter. A true "converter" would be weird and extremely expensive (thousands).

Originally Posted by Fasterskis

I realize that I can keep reading and find recent answers to these questions but we are really hoping someone is feeling generous with the time to help some newbies. We are also busy trying to figure out if my business can survive an extended shut down and if my employees will come back and all the headaches that no one ever could have imagined. My business is a small digital print shop in Michigan during Shelter in Place lock down.

I saw that graph of "people with fever" about 4 days ago, reported through the Internet with the fancy internet-connected thermometers. It clearly showed a blow-up of new cases in Southern Michigan, the day before CDC and case counts began to rise. My wife grew up in U.P., I'm so sorry for your situation. My turn is coming...

[Fasterskis]

Thanks Bill & Rickst29. I just figured out I don't know how to properly reply to you comments. You have guided me in the right direction and I will be able to focus my research in a more productive way.
Rickst29 you did lose me here:

The new circuit breaker along the #6 wire to the "load center" is the battery disconnect. But you don't need to use it, if you keep the new inverter connected in storage. Those new PD power converters are nearly the equal of any battery tender. You can save $30-40 bucks by using the inverter, and skipping the "Battery Tender" purchase.

What inverter are you referring to?

[rickst29]

That should have been referring to the converter - the 30A power cord, through a 15a dogbone if you haven't got 30A at your storage location.

[Bill]

Fasterskis -

"Battery Tender" is actually a brand name for what is called a battery maintainer. There are number of good units - use the Forum's Search tool to find discussions. A battery maintainer is not intended for use on the road or in a campground. Instead, it is intended to be used during long-term storage of your trailer, in a place where you have access to shore power (plug-in power). As the word "maintainer" implies, it keeps your battery properly and fully charged without overcharging it, but is not intended to charge a low battery.

In years past, the converters found in RVs and trailers were not very good at long-term maintenance, despite claims that the "float" part of the charging cycle would do the job. Today's converters may be better, as Rickst29 suggested, but having been burned by a converter, I still prefer to use something specifically designed for maintenance.

As I noted in my original post above, this is probably one of the things that you don't need right away. Save your money for later.

By the way, a good battery maintainer will cost around $30 or $40. It is not the same thing as a trickle charger ($4-$6). Avoid trickle chargers.

Bill