Honda Ridgeline Advice Please

I hope you don’t mind, but I see there are folks here offering in depth answers to TV questions. I have never towed anything serious before and want to make sure I am not getting into trouble. I bought a new Honda Ridgeline pickup and now I plan to buy a 3124KS or 3326 King to pull behind it. I want to be able to handle mountains, but only on occasion, so slow would be OK, I guess. Maybe someone can give me an idea just how slow it would be!

My biggest question is …generally, am I going to be OK, or do I need to go with a smaller trailer?

Here is some data on my truck:

3.5 L V6; 255hp at 5750 rpm; 252 lb.–ft. at 4500 rpm; 5 spd auto; gear ratios - 1st = 2.693, 2nd = 1.566, 3rd =1.023, 4th = 0.729, 5th = 0.531; Final Drive = 4.533; 6050 lb. = GVWR; 10,085 lb. = GCWR; 5000 lb. = Towing Capacity; 1550 lb. = Total Payload Capacity; 122” = wheelbase; track = 67”; curb weight = 4500 (58%F/42%R).

I measure about 50 inches from center of rear axle to where I expect hitch ball to be when I install the hitch.

I don’t know if it makes any difference, but it also has front wheel drive/ Variable Torque Management 4WD, locking rear differential, P245/65 R17 105S tires, very good ABS disk brakes (12.6 Front/13.1 Rear), and Vehicle Stability Assist.

Oh, one more thought. I would probably typically have 600 to 900 lbs of stuff in the pickup including driver, passenger, ice chest, food for the road, bikes, kayaks, etc. Once in a while I may have up to 5 people in the pickup, but that would be rare, and I probably wouldn't have as many toys then.

I ordered a Tekonsha Prodigy brake controller. Beyond the basic question of if my truck can handle the larger TM’s, I am wondering if I will need a sway control device and/or WDH?

I will really appreciate your assistance. I didn’t read every thread here because I assume not too many folks have pulled a TM with a Ridgeline yet. If the answers to my questions are already posted, just send me a link to the right place to look. Thanks!

Jim

[Bill]

Nice looking vehicle!

I'll let Ray do the torque and weight numbers when he logs in, but I think he will tell you that you are kinda marginal in some of your numbers. Part of it depends on what you mean by "mountains". Where do you expect to be towing? The Blue Ridge or the Smokies are a lot different from the Rockies or the Sierras.

Much of the info you need is not Ridgeline-specific, so it would pay to read what is already posted. And it shortens the task for Ray, who is a very busy guy. Have you read the towing-related articles in the TM Reference Library (TM Info You Won't Find Anywhere Else)? Do so - Ray just posted a couple very good ones.

On the question of WDH - YES, YOU NEED IT!

On the question of sway control - ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT, provided that you load the TM as it was meant to be loaded - substantial weight in the front.

Bill

"6050 lb. = GVWR; 10,085 lb. = GCWR; 5000 lb. = Towing Capacity; 1550 lb. = Total Payload Capacity"

GCWR = 10085
GVWR - 6050 (not counting any options on truck, GVWR is always base only)
toys - 900
leaving 3135, sorry but you are in trouble with the 2720 with full options.

For a number of years we towed our 2619 TM with a six cylinder Aerostar van that had a 4.0 liter engine. When we weighed our TM as loaded for travel, it weighed in at just about 3600 lbs. The Aerostar was rated to tow 5000, so it seemed we were okay. However, mountains on I-40 in New Mexico pulled our speed down to about 50 mph when the speed limit was 75. We had the most trouble when we tried to cross Teton Pass going from Jackson, Wyoming to Idaho Falls, Idaho. Our speed dropped down to 25 mph. We now tow with a Chevy Silverado with 4.7 liter engine and tow rating of 9,000 lbs. Hardly know we have a trailer behind.

You definitely need the load distribution hitch!!!

____________________________
1991 2619SL
2003 Chevy Silverado

[fcatwo]

It would help if we knew "how-far" and "how-often" you plan to tow with the Ridge. We towed a stripped 2002 TM2619 (no air,awning etc) with a stripped 2002 Honda Odyssey (2nd & 3rd row seats removed etc) at the 8,200lb GCWR for three years and 15-20,000 miles and found the Honda 3.5 to be both capable and fuel efficient. We did have to keep our speed up around 70 to have enough torque to pull in 5th gear (as the owners manual recommended) and get the 17.4 mpg we enjoyed. We tried towing in 3rd a couple of times but the engine turns almost twice the rpm as 5th and fuel economy dropped to the 12-14 level. The Honda 5sp auto does not allow locking out 5th without also locking out 4th.

We considered getting an 05 Ody but Honda didn't change enough things to satisfy me and I spotted a statement in the pre-release fine print that said the Ody was intended for occasional or weekend towing only. I would never have bought the 02 had they leaked that information back then.

I saw a new TM3124KS towed by a Honda Pilot a couple of months ago and your Ridge is certainly more capable than the Pilot. I wouldn't discourage you from going as big as the 3124 but the 3.5 may have it's hands full moving 10,000lbs and fuel economy will suffer--- won't matter of course if it's primarily your daily driver and only occasionally a TV.

I would like to thank everyone for their responses. You guys are great. I am still confused, but I am not blaming anyone here.

For the next 4 years it will be used only for a few long weekends and one or two brief 1-3 week vacations a year. After that I plan to retire and I will spend considerable more time traveling with it. At that time my travels will no doubt take me to high elevations and steep grades. It did not look like there was a lot of difference in the weight of the larger trailers to the smaller ones. Until I started reading the posts here I thought with a 5,000 pound towing rating I was going to be all set.

I got the truck specifications that I listed in my original post from the colorful sales brochure that I picked up before I bought the Ridgeline. I should have done it sooner, but after reading your responses I re-read the towing section of the owners manual. It almost seems like they painted a rosy picture in the brochure for you to read before you buy and then try to scare you out of taking them up on those claims in the manual.

The manual says to reduce the GCWR by 2% for every 1,000 feet above sea level. At 12,500 feet my GCWR would drop from 10,088 lbs. to only 7,566 lbs. When I subtract the weight of the truck (4,500) I then only have 3,066 lbs left for the passengers, gear and the trailer! I doubt that leaves room for any TM model unless I pack real light and make my passenger walk up the hills! Oh, I guess we could take turns.

Then there is a chart that says the max trailer weight is 5,000 lbs (like the brochure and TV ads proclaim) and max tongue load is 600 lbs with two 150 lb occupants. But in fine print it adds that is assuming only 15 lbs of total cargo per person!

It gets worse…in the same chart, with 3 people, which would be the equivalent of putting 165 lbs of gear in the back seat, the max trailer weight goes down to 3,500 lbs and tongue load to 420 lbs. That is a 1,500 lb drop in max trailer weight just because you added 165 lbs. Then add another 165 lbs and it only drops an additional 500 lbs. to 3,000 lbs. max. trailer weight. Why would it drop 1,500 for the third person and 500 lbs for the 4th? A fifth person drops it another 1,000 and tongue weight drops to only 240 lbs. Go figure! Also, this chart does not mention any altitude adjustment. It just does not make sense to me.

BTW as per the manual… “WDH is not recommended for use with your vehicle, as an improperly adjusted WDH may reduce handling, stability and braking performance.” I have to wonder if their lawyers made them put that in. I would think that could be true, but also a properly adjusted WDH would improve handling, stability and braking performance. What do you think?

At this point I am confused and thinking the manual may have errors...but I don't know what to believe. Some of it must be because it is now about 5 hours past my bedtime. I don’t know if I should give up on pulling a trailer period. I know I don't want a pop up! I'll continue tenting first.

Thanks again for your help.

Jim

[fcatwo]

You've got it right. Engineers built the truck, marketing people wrote the advertising and attorneys wrote the disclaimers in the owners manual-- and none of them work in the same office or have ever met. All manufacturers are much the same. If you have time and haven't already done so, you may want to spend time on the Ridgeline, Pilot and Odyssey owner's web sites to find out what others are doing and how it's working out.

Don't get too discouraged, we've all been through the same learning process and lived to complain about it. I still think you'll be OK at GCWR- you can use your tent when you go to 12,500ft.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by Adrenalin Rush

I hope you don’t mind, but I see there are folks here offering in depth answers to TV questions. I have never towed anything serious before and want to make sure I am not getting into trouble. I bought a new Honda Ridgeline pickup and now I plan to buy a 3124KS or 3326 King to pull behind it. I want to be able to handle mountains, but only on occasion, so slow would be OK, I guess. Maybe someone can give me an idea just how slow it would be!

My biggest question is …generally, am I going to be OK, or do I need to go with a smaller trailer?

Here is some data on my truck:

3.5 L V6; 255hp at 5750 rpm; 252 lb.–ft. at 4500 rpm; 5 spd auto; gear ratios - 1st = 2.693, 2nd = 1.566, 3rd =1.023, 4th = 0.729, 5th = 0.531; Final Drive = 4.533; 6050 lb. = GVWR; 10,085 lb. = GCWR; 5000 lb. = Towing Capacity; 1550 lb. = Total Payload Capacity; 122” = wheelbase; track = 67”; curb weight = 4500 (58%F/42%R).

Sorry for being a bit tardy in chiming in on this one...just got back from a 1000 mile trip that included 850 miles of serious mountain towing across Colorado's steep and high altitude roads. So I have lots of recent experience.

As Bill noted, I'm pretty busy so will try to cut directly to the chase here. As you've now discovered, the Ridgeline is adequate for carrrying a moderate load or for towing a lightweight trailer but is not really capable of doing both. It has neither the structural strength (part of why they tell you not to use a WDH) nor does it have the mid-RPM torque to do it.

Honda was clearly desperate to get into the exceedingly profitable half-ton truck market and did what they could for a driveline with what they had in their parts bins. Horsepower is useless for towing...you must use the maximum torque numbers. And while the max torque of 252 ft-lbs is theoretically adequate for towing, it's being generated at a screaming 4500 RPM. With a 4.53 axle ratio...and running the transmission in 3rd gear with OD locked out, you'll be turning about 3300 RPM at 65 mph. Although 3300 RPM is high enough to produce a lot of noise in the cab, it's still way, way below peak torque RPM. So, even at sea level, I rather doubt you'll have much more than 180 ft-lbs to work with at the fastest highway speeds you should be towing at. And if you drop down to about 50-55 mph, you'll only have about 150 ft-lbs.

Climb up to 11,000 feet and you'll only have 60% of that (the torque loss is more like 3.5% than 2% per thousand feet of elevation once you get over 4000 feet or so). I consider 300 ft-lbs (at a reasonable RPM of 3000 or lower) to be the minimum for "adequate" high mountain towing.

What those torque numbers mean to me is on flat, low elevation roads (midwest, Gulf coast), the Ridgeline would tow a 3600 lb trailer (loaded weight) adequately if you had 2 to 3 people in the cab and not much cargo in the bed. You won't have any spare power for passing though so avoid 2 lane highways.

But even with the lightest TM...and very little load in the cab, you will be down to about 15 to 20 mph when climbing the high and steep passes of the central Rockies (Colorado, Utah) or the Sierra Nevada and you would be at that slow speed with the engine screaming at 4000 RPM in 1st or 2nd gear continuously for as long as an hour. Keep in mind that even Interstate 70 across Colorado reaches elevations of 11,100 feet and has nearly 20 miles of 7% grades at elevations above 9,000 feet. The secondary highways sometimes have grades of greater than 10% at those high altitudes. The truck (and your nervous system ) might stand that kind of abuse one time but its longevity would be greatly shortened if you did this repeatedly.

As for the apparently minor difference in published weight between a 2619 and 3326, please keep in mind those are empty weights...no options, no consumables (water, propane) and especially no "stuff". One of the big differences between a 2619 and a 3326 is the larger trailer has enormously greater storage for "stuff"...and if you're going on a 3 week trip with 3 to 4 people, there will be a plenty of "stuff" (which always expands to fill every available storage area). The net result is a loaded for camping and well optioned 2619 (e.g. AC, spare tire, awning, overhead cabinet) will probably weigh around 3600 lbs whereas a similarly well optioned and fully loaded 3326 will weigh right around 5000 lbs.

The bottom line is that you need to think in terms of a 2619 or 2720 in terms of trailer size (preferably lightly optioned...i.e. no awning)...and travel with it lightly loaded. And if you're thinking of crossing the high Rockies of Colorado, you better be thinking driver and one passenger, not much cargo in the truck or trailer, speeds down around 25 mph for extended periods (30 to 60 minutes at a time), and making your mountain crossings in the cool air of the early morning, etc. Crossing the lower Rockies (Montana, Wyoming, New Mexico) will still be challenging but not quite as bad.

I have decided to look for a 2720. I think I figured out I will be OK to 7,500 feet with a 2720 and the loads I expect to carry. I will try to plan a vacation to try it at those elevations and see how it does before I take it over the really high passes in Colorado. Thanks everyone!

Jim

[fcatwo]

I think you'll want a WDH. Their disclaimer can't be to protect the rear axle because the WDH will move weight from there forward and back. they must think someone will use 1,200lb load bars with 300 lbs of tongue weight and crush the Ridge's car-like front suspension or lighten the load on the rear wheels to the point that they don't maintain good road contact- inviting jack-knifing.

I've been reading a little about the Ridge and it has a ladder frame added to the Odyssey-like unit/body frame and should handle a WDH much better than the Ody. They didn't restrict people from using WDH's with the Ody when we had one.