3326 Mod...Leave Kitchen Table Seat Out?

While working on the repair for the kitchen table seat (door side) on our 3326, we discovered that you gain some floor space without the seat. We are thinking about putting in a bar stool to replace the standard seat.

You should remember that the kitchen table area serves several functions:

1. Hides the wheel wells.
2. Mounting location for the heater.
3. Additional storage.
4. Extra bed (for an extra tall elf)
5. Kitchen table.

It would be great to remove everything in that area as you would significant room.

Has anyone done this to their 3326? What is the downside of this?

Merry Christmas,

[Bill]

... the kitchen table area serves several functions ... It would be great to remove everything in that area ...

I'm not clear on your question. Are you thinking about removing just the seat near the door (and substituting a bar stool), or removing the dinette and both seats?

Bill

[Wavery]

Just remember that most cabinetry serves as reinforcement for the walls as well.

If you remove the benches, you may have to put some braces in that wall.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by harveyrv

Just remember that most cabinetry serves as reinforcement for the walls as well.

Really? I never heard that. I guarantee that the cabinets in my earlier 2720SL didn't brace anything. I took them out in order to install the drawers that I installed. The cabinets are really flimsy until they are braced by the wall. And since the cabinets don't have a back (parallel to the wall), but only flimsy plywood interior walls perpendicular to the TM walls, I don't think they do much.

Just my thoughts.

Bill

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Bill

Really? I never heard that. I guarantee that the cabinets in my earlier 2720SL didn't brace anything. I took them out in order to install the drawers that I installed. The cabinets are really flimsy until they are braced by the wall. And since the cabinets don't have a back (parallel to the wall), but only flimsy plywood interior walls perpendicular to the TM walls, I don't think they do much.

Just my thoughts.

Bill

Note how your 2720 has a brace on the wall, just forward of the door, next to the floor. If one were to remove all of he cabinetry on the wall to the rear of the door, a similar brace may be needed to keep that wall from flexing, especially when closing the door.

[Bill]

The brace that you mention, to the right of the door, is thick steel, anchored through the wall and the trailer frame with big steel bolts and nuts. By contrast, the cabinets are very thin flimsy plywood, and they are attached to the wall and the floor with a few sheet metal screws into the aluminum sheet and the foam behind it. And we agree that sheet metal screws in thin aluminum pull out if you look at them crooked. I doubt that anyone is relying on that for bracing. Could be wrong, though.

At most, I would expect that if you remove the cabinets, you might consider retrofitting a 6" steel L-brace or two, similarly anchored into strong structures. They are pictured in the same thread.

Bill

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Bill

You are right. But that brace is thick steel, anchored through the wall and the frame with big steel bolts and nuts. By contrast, the cabinets are very thin flimsy plywood, and they are attached to the wall and the floor with a few sheet metal screws into the aluminum sheet and the foam behind it. And we agree that sheet metal screws in thin aluminum pull out if you look at them crooked. I doubt that anyone is relying on that for bracing. Could be wrong, though.

At most, I would expect that if you remove the cabinets, you might consider retrofitting a big L-brace, similarly anchored into strong structures. They are pictured in the same thread.

Bill

The cabinetry (in contrast to the metal brace) spreads the load over a much wider area and each fastener has very little work to do. Also, the ends of the cabinetry (benches in this case) are a very strong, closed (on the ends) box.

Try standing a cardboard box next to a free standing piece of plywood (fastened at the bottom) and see how hard it is to push that plywood over. Do the same thing with and "L" bracket and you will see that there is a tremendous difference.

However, if the inside of the wall is framed for that "L" bracket (on your 2720SL), that would make a difference and that could add a further challenge to removing those benches on the 3324. I doubt that wall is appropriately framed for that. A schematic would show if there is any place that there may be framing to put a brace.

A good alternative (to just leaving that bare wall) might be to install a 12" deep cabinet on that wall. I think that TM sells cabinets like that. That would increase the floor space (and strength) significantly plus add some handy storage.

Well if I could remove the entire dinette I would. You would gain a lot of floor space and give you a nice living room in the 3326.

Dittos on the wall flex. I would point out that the door side seat does not do a good job of that or I would have had the screws pull themselves out. It may well need a steel bracket to replace the loss of the door side seat.

I went back to look at the dinette. I don't think the table platform does anything other than give the dinette enough elevation so that the bed side seat can clear the wheel wells.

If you added bar stool and a folding (hinged) table you would gain a pile of room. It seems it would only cost you one small bed and storage locker.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Bill

Wayne -

I'm surprised, and confused. In this thread
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=9939
you declared the cabinets to have no structural value. Different cabinets, same principle.

Bill

Ahhhh!!! Bill........you are the one that brought up the point that the cabinet was an integral part of the design and of the "Brace" taking place of the cabinet and I conceded that you were right. Now you are taking the opposite position.....did you read the thread? Are you just trying to be contrary for the sake of being contrary?

The wall in the 3326 is a lot longer that the wall in the 2720.

I would add as a 3326 owner, I too believe the cabinets and the dinette enhance the structure. If they did not then the screws would never have pulled out of the doorside dinette seat. Additionally, there is a steel bracket on the right hand interior (towards the front of the TM) of the door frame.

The 3326 has a very long wall. I am sure the cabinetry adds to wall strength and stability, even though the wood is not that dense. When/if I do the repair, I do not want to have to do it again.

Still I really like the idea of gaining floor space in the 3326.