Cadillac

I just purchased a 2720. I will be picking it up on Saturday. My current tow vehicle is a Dodge full size van 1500 with the V6. It has a 3500 pound towing capacity. I am sure this will be adequate because I live in WI and will not be traveling out west until I replace the vehicle. The V6 is under powered and would have difficulty pulling the steep grades. My actual question is when we replace the current tow vehicle we are considering a Cadillac SRX. It is the Cadillac cross over. We like it because it is a decent size, is RWD, and is rated for 4500 lbs for towing. Most crossovers are FWD based for towing something that heavy I would rather have RWD. Has anyone towed with one of these? Does anyone know of any issues with these vehicles specifically or Cadillacs in general? I mostly have driven Mopars because I am accustomed to their quirks and issues.

My 2005 TM 2720 weighs 4,000 pounds when loaded.

I don't like to tow at the limit. I prefer the 80 percent rule. 80 percent of 5,000 pounds is 4,000 pounds. That would make me comfortable.

Your trailer weights 2742, then add the weight of the options: awning, a/c, etc.

What size water tank? When my 40 gallon tank is full and the water heater is full then I have 380 pounds of water. When I leave home I have all that water. When I leave the campground a lot of it is in the gray tank until I find a place to dump it. The fresh water is in front of the axle, adding to the tongue weight. The gray tank is behind the axle, subtracting from the tongue weight.

Also understand the weight of extra stuff in the van, such as other passengers and gasoline. This all subtracts from the total weight.

You can probably keep your weight down to an acceptable level for short weekend trips, but I don't think you will be able to take a trip out of state for a week or two without running into weight limits.

I don't want to scare you, but I do recommend that on one of your trips that you weigh it and adjust accordingly. Some people are content to tow overweight. I am not.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful or disrespectful because I am excited about my new camper and have learned a lot from the postings in the forum. That said, if as you state I really should have a 5000# towing capacity to tow even the smaller TM what are the benefits of a TM. I understand it will be easier to tow if I owned a 1 ton diesel truck but that is obvious. Personally for me the main selling point for the TM is that I don't need to buy a truck I have no other use for to tow the camper. If I need to buy a truck wouldn't I be better off buying a less expensive but larger camper with upper cabinets and a full size refrigerator? Again I don't want to sound like I am flaming you. I just feel the statements that you really need to have 5000# towing capacity under all circumstances negates the main selling point for a TM.

I suggest that you read my recent comments under 'Back from Alaska'. Two years ago when I was researching this subject prior to purchasing a TM I was nearly put off the whole project by comments suggesting that my V6 Toyota Highlander was not appropriate to tow either a 2619 or 2720. Fortuntely, I heard from two owners who already owned exactly these combinations. It was suggested however that I might not have enough power to tackle trips into and west of the Rockies. My wife and I have now completed trips to both Colorado and Alaska and the Highlander has handled these without any overheating, undue slowness etc etc.Normally we tow at 60-65mph and usually maintain 50mph up the longest climbs. To keep the engine cool you should engage lower gearing and keep the rpm's between 3,000 amd 4,500 for steep climbs. This is nothing new as I was instructed many years ago how to correctly drive over mountainous terrane in Europe where the custom is to tow 'caravans' with mid sizes sedans ( in most cases underpowered by US standards).
Incidently, the WDH is the best towing development of the past 20 years.
Good luck, Geoff Card
05 Toyota Higlander V6 with towing package
2002 TM 2619
WDH

As you diplomatically put it, I will preface this with "No disrespect intended"...

The 80% guideline applies to all situations. The advantages of a TM's light weight still apply, even if you are adhering to the 80% guideline. A comparably sized 30 ft hard sided travel trailer could weigh 7500 pounds, or more, meaning you would need 9000 lbs of towing capacity. And this doesn't even account for the significant increase in wind resistance of a full sized TT when towing.

The benefits of light weight and less resistance for TMs are real. And they do enable an entire class of vehicles (like my Pacifica) as safe TVs. But it doesn't mean that you can tow them safely with anything...

All that being said, as my signature indicates, I am working beyond the 80% guideline right now. It is something that we are very conscious of, so we choose locations carefully and pack accordingly. We intend to upgrade our TV within the year to enable a broader range of locations and longer trips.

I would add the following points to the comment that I made earlier this morning: 1. I cannot imagine having a 40 gallon water tank, we have a 20 gallon tank and never leave home with more than 10 gallons. Even when camping on remote sites in Alaska we were always able to get a good water supply even though some of these were from hand operated pumps.
2. Why take the grey water away from the camp site? We have always found a dump site on or near even the most remote sites.
3.You do not need to carry gas even when travelling through the Yukon provided you fill at each opportunity.
4. Do not pack a lot of food, buy fresh as you travel and just take a few cans and some powdered milk for emergencies. All these add up to a big weight saving.
5. I do not believe in the 80% rule. You can be sure that when setting towing weight limits the manufacturers will have included a large percentage safety factor in their calculations as is standard engineering practice. You are only heeping safety margins on top of safety margins.
Geoff Card

Originally Posted by Geoffrey Card

I would add the following points to the comment that I made earlier this morning: 1. I cannot imagine having a 40 gallon water tank, we have a 20 gallon tank and never leave home with more than 10 gallons. Even when camping on remote sites in Alaska we were always able to get a good water supply even though some of these were from hand operated pumps.
2. Why take the grey water away from the camp site? We have always found a dump site on or near even the most remote sites.
3.You do not need to carry gas even when traveling through the Yukon provided you fill at each opportunity.
4. Do not pack a lot of food, buy fresh as you travel and just take a few cans and some powdered milk for emergencies. All these add up to a big weight saving.
5. I do not believe in the 80% rule. You can be sure that when setting towing weight limits the manufacturers will have included a large percentage safety factor in their calculations as is standard engineering practice. You are only heeping safety margins on top of safety margins.
Geoff Card

1. This depends a lot on where you want to go. I have found that *SOME* of the time the water at US forest service campgrounds and County parks requires boiling before you can drink it. I prefer to carry my own water so I don't have to boil it. When traveling dry, always have a backup plan in case your destination has no water.

2. The places that I go do not have a dump station. The nearest dump station is sometimes 60 miles down the freeway. So I have to haul the gray water some distance. This is a function of where you are staying. I don't stay in commercial RV parks that have hookups.

3. Where I camp the nearest gas station is the same 60 miles away. If I will be in the campsite for several days and driving around site seeing then I need to fill up my 31 gallon gas tank at the last gas stop.

4. The quickie mart at the gas station 60 miles away does not carry fresh produce. I take food for 6 people for the duration of the stay with me. 120 miles round trip to buy another carton of milk is not very convenient. I am self contained.

5. Sorry to be a little harsh on my reference to the 80 percent rule. I studied engineering once upon a time. I apply the rule. I do not have an advanced engineering degree. Do what is comfortable for you, but do it with knowledge. If you weigh your rig you will know how much over weight you are, or under weight. I weigh 215 pounds. When I bought my step ladder I bought one rated for 300 pounds instead of the one that was rated for 200 pounds. I doubt that my 15 pounds of flab would have resulted in my death, but when I am 12 feet in the air I just feel better on a ladder designed for my intended purpose.

I jumped to the conclusion that Alaska was sparsely populated. Apparently there are more gas stations in Alaska than there is in California. I have to plan carefully so I don't run out of food, water and gas.

As long as you stay under the 3500 pound rating for your vehicle you should be fine. According to the Toyota web site for the Sienna specs, it says:

The maximum you can tow depends on the total weight of any cargo, occupants and available equipment.

Make sure you understand that there is a total weight for the TV and the trailer and all cargo and passengers. If you fill up the TV with passengers, pets, and additional cargo this is part of your total weight limit for the TV. You have several weight limits to be aware of so that you do not unknowingly exceed them:

1. weight of loaded trailer.
2. tongue weight of loaded trailer.
3. total combined weight of TV plus trailer as it rolls down the road.

Before installing a WD hitch check with the manufacturer. Some small SUVs and mini vans with unibody construction are not designed for use with a WD hitch.

The Sienna is limited to a tongue weight of 350 pounds. I have not weighed my tongue weight for my 2720, but I think I am at 400 pounds.

My research on the Sienna shows that when towing a 3500 pound trailer you can still have 900 pounds of passengers and cargo in the van. Six adults weighing 150 pounds or more would exceed the limit of the Sienna when towing 3500 pounds. Any guests will just have to drive their own car. Leave the rock collection at home.

The following web site is pretty good if you are new to this towing limit topic:

http://www.rvtowingtips.com/

I am not trying to put you down. I am trying to be a little helpful. Bottom line is don't trust the salesman when they say what can tow what. Do your research and understand the limits of the setup.

Towing is not just an issue of will the engine tow it up the hill. Frequent towing at the limit will put a strain on the drive train which will shorten the life of the TV. If you only tow for one week a year then I would not worry about it. If you go camping every weekend then it might become an issue.

When going down a hill there is the risk that you may need to make a panic stop while negotiating a turn. Sure the trailer has its own brakes, but there is still a lot of push happening at odd angles. I had to lock my brakes once while going down a modest grade at 45 mph. I was pleased with the performance of my equipment. The TV needs to be able to control the TV and trailer. Long wheel base is helpful, but that does not mean a short wheel base is dangerous. If you will never drive on mountain roads and will mostly be on freeways then braking ability and wheelbase are not as important as it is for me where I drive very steep mountain roads that are so narrow that they don't bother painting a line down the middle of the road.

We have a 2000 GMC Jimmy - similar to Leon's Chevy Trailblazer. We both have had good luck towing 2619 TMs. We've towed ours from Little Rock, AR to our home, to the WA coast, to the east coast - ID, MT, ND, SD, IL, IN, MI, PA, NJ, DE, WA DC, VA, NC, SC, TN, KY, NM, UT, CO, WY, and back and averaged 15 MPG. The only time we overheated was my fault- sitting in a parking lot in Farmington, NM with the air conditioner running. That was DUMB! I have towed with Fords, Chevys, a Mazda, an Oldsmobile, a Cadillac, and a couple of Subarus. The ones I would not want again are the Cadillac and the Mazda - it pinged on regular even without a load. There was no way to change the timing. The Cadillac was a pile of overpriced junk. We towed a small tent trailer with it to NM and AZ and had to get the trans rebuilt when we got back. I will never own another Cadillac but that's just my opinion. Yours may vary.

[Keith Wire]

Wayne, I'm with you. I always error on the "bigger is better side." Therefore I made sure my TV could pull 7,000 lbs even though we bought a 2720SL.

I have always been that way… I bought a bigger generator for our house, a more powerful PC, and a stronger hydraulic jack; all because I wanted to be more safe than sorry.

Even when I was young and didn’t have much I would prefer to save up and buy the best, because I knew I wouldn’t be happy with less.

However, the majority dictates that "price" rules instead of "quality" or "safety".

Over the years I have learned it is OK for me to be in the minority. I am happy with my choices, just as those who choose the other path.

Keith


EDIT!!!

After re-reading this I realized I might come across as being arrogant. I don’t mean it that way at all. It is just that people are different, and we each have to determine what is the best for ourselves.

The issue here is not if you can tow with a TV rated at 5,000 lbs., we know it can be done. Some will do it and never have a problem. Some will have a problem though, and I just hope I am not in their way when they do…

I have been participating in this thread with great interest, and have read similar threads on other forums with great interest. There seems to be two camps with strong opinions, and I think I am beginning to see a pattern.

I have been diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I also am an admitted perfectionist. I am willing to spend an above average amount of money and a great deal of my time it implementing the perfect solution to a problem. According to my doctor, this is a common trait among programmers and engineers.

I don't know if, and don't want to accuse, any one else of having OCD, but it seems pretty clear that some of us think differently than others. OCD would be one explanation.

Some seem to be very focused on the lowest cost TV that can just barely tow a particular trailer versus what is the best TV, all factors considered.

Some people replace their cars more often than other. I have one friend that has never bought tires in his life. When the factory tires need to be replaced he trades in his car for a new one. I keep my cars and trucks for 200k miles.

I can see that anyone that intends to replace their TV in a few years has no interest on wear and tear causing premature failure so far down the road that they will no longer be the owner. For me it is very important.

I bought my first camping equipment in 1974. Stove, lantern, ice chest, tent, sleeping bags, etc. The ice chest wore out about 5 years ago but I still use the rest of the equipment every year. When I bought it I bought it to last a lifetime. This is just the way I am.

I have been in the same house since 1986. My neighbors have frequently teased me about how long I keep my cars. Recently they have started to mention that they think I have spent a lot less money on cars than they have over that period of time. They no longer think I am crazy.

So it just seems to me that the two different camps run something along the lines of:

1. OCD vs. non OCD
2. Long term perspective vs. short term
3. Quality oriented vs. cost oriented
4. Engineering background vs. non engineering background
5. Perfectionist vs. close enough for who it is for

Neither is right or wrong.

I think that my main point is that no one should be towing anything that is not safe. The closer you are to towing at the limit the more important it is to weigh it all so you don't have to guess if you are overweight or not.

It is clearly possible to overload a TM 2720 without trying very hard. I have loaded and weighed mine, so I know how close I am go going over the factory spec.

And as for the comments that the manufacturer always builds in a safety margin, I stick to the point I made earlier. I have no doubt that there is an extra margin, but it is not documented and it is not the same for every product. So the consumer has to guess.

Not to slam the TM, but I would be more comfortable being overweight by 20 percent in my 1500HD than I would be if I overloaded my TM by the same 20 percent.

I plan on owning and using my TM for at least 20 years. This is why we bought new and why I try to be sure I do not overload it.