The "Recommended Tow Vehicle" list

Originally Posted by Barb&Tim

Sorry, I'm not seeing you as a victim. Is Ed stalking you or are you stalking Ed or is it that both of you are just interested in the subject of towing?

I've been on the board for over a year and I really can't say that I have seen anyone badgering you the way you have appeared to badger Harveyrv (until he quit posting) and now for a second time, Ed.

You an I both know that you were baiting Ed when you asked him if he owned a trailmanor -- you already knew the answer!
And you also knew he would respond aggressively. Very slick actually.

So now you have (again) made sure that everyone knows that Ed has no trailmanor and no trailmanor experience therefore we should all just ignore his posts -- right?

Or am I missing the point of this entirely?

Tim

Tim, you didn't miss the point at all. In fact you hit the nail on the head as anyone who has been here a while knows. My mailbox of private messages from other members reflects the same.
As you are aware this is not the first time it's happened, but hopefully it will be the last.

Originally Posted by scrubjaysnest

Having owned an Astro van and an S10 with the 4.3L motor and having towed pop-ups with both there is no way I would pull our TM with either. Here in Florida you could get away with it barely but any other state with a minimum interstate speed limit of 50 mph and anything to climb other than our small sand dunes the astro and s10 won't be able to do it. The S10 could not handle the pop-up on I77, I81 and I64 in WV and VA. The S10 had 4.10 gears and a 5200# TC pulling a 2600# pop-up. The Astro had 3.73 gears and made the last long pull into Ashville, NC on I26 at 40mph. We just got back from almost 7 months on the road and pulling the TM with 4.7L v8 was no problem. We did avoid the interstates as much as possible. We spent two months with the TM above 3000 ft which is nothing compared to the 9000 feet plus we towed the pop-up last year.

Just my $.02 worth

Your experience is very different than mine.
I believe in using the appropriate tool for the job.
No sense in using a chain saw to cut butter in other words.
I have towed our 3124 all over the western half of the US with a 1996 Astro Van. For 4 summers we lived in our TM, towing it over many high passes in the west.
I had the TM weighed at the 2000 Jubilee in Rapid City, SD by an outfit that specializes in weighing trailers and tow rigs called A'Weigh We Go.
Out TM weighed 4820 lbs and I was towing with the Astro's stock axle gearing of 3.23, giving me a tow rating of 4500 lbs so I was basically overloaded and yet we hauled from there to WY, up the Olympic Penninsula, down the Pacific Coast and back to FL stopping at the Grand Canyon. I think the toughest haul we did on that maiden voyage was up Hualipi Mountain outside of Kingman, AZ.
I never had one problem with the Astro Van.
When I returned to FL I had the axle gearing changed out to 3.73, increasing the tow rating to 5500 lbs which really improved things.
I tow in 3rd as recommended (4th or Drive is actually an overdrive ratio) in the owner's manual and I get 15 mpg.
I installed an aux tranny cooler before I started towing the TM.
I had the trans rebuilt in 2006 just for the peace of mind before starting out on another X country trip.
We moved to OR in 2008 and the old Astro with 175K on her still tows the TM over the Cascade passes just fine.
I keep my speed down to 60 when towing. No sense in wasting gas just to get to camp a few minutes earlier.

Your mileage may vary as they say but my experience is that the Astro makes a perfect tow vehicle for us. We like to bike and the cargo van style that we have just swallows up our tandem and a couple mt bikes with plenty of room left over for camping gear and our dog crate and everything stays locked up and protected and easily accessible.
Too bad that GM discontinued making the Astro. There is not a mid size van on the market today that can replace the Astro.

[scrubjaysnest]

Interesting perspective Bruce. That's what makes this forum so great. We towed the TM up from Delta Co to the top of Grand Mesa on SR 65. That's almost a 6000 foot elevation gain. The Dodge did it at 35 to 40 MPH and 3000 to 3500 RPM. Our old S10 and Astro would never have made it without being a traffic hazard.

I do not have the patience to tow slower that the poasted limit, unless it is not safe.

Every time there are 5 or more vehicles behind me I am required by law to find a safe place to move over to let them pass.

In California, heading to the mountains on a Friday night, there would always be 5 cars behind me.

As long as I am going with the flow of traffic then I don't have to pull over to let others pass.

We each get to choose our TV. My requirements are perhaps a bit different than anyone else's.

I think we all have to find that perfect balance of risk/reward, tempered with the knowledge that we are part of a larger society. I find people on this forum towing with vehicles that I would never consider safe for the task, others are using more vehicle than they need. I tend toward the latter. We can just give feedback and hope good decisions are made. And Wayne, I have been following your posts for years...once you get to the end of the pavement, I doubt if you ever have a problem with 5 vehicles behind you!!!

On the other side of this equation there was a fellow I knew when we were members of the Dixie Chapter of the TrailBlazers who had purchased a Ford Expedition with the big diesel engine to tow his 3023.
Overkill to say the least! LOL

Whatever floats your boat as they say.
I'll stick with the Astro.
The axle gearing really does make a big difference in towing ability. Much more so than any after market power boosters, most of which are pure garbage.
If folks behind me don't like my speed they are welcome to pass me on the next uphill passing lane. I don't pay much attention to their whining or honking. :-)
Anyway, I have passed many a semi with my rig going up steep grades and I don't think they worry much about the motorists in line behind them.
We all have a right to the road.

In California, if there are 5 or more vehicles behind you then the burden is on you to find a safe place to let them pass. Waiting 20 miles for the next passing lane is not the way to go. There are spurs and side roads that can be used.

It used to be 7 vehicles. Sometime ago they changed it to be 5.

This has noting to do with towing. This law applies to all vehicles, towing or not.

I think we also have a minimum freeway speed of 45mph. Any vehicle that can not maintain 45 mph for a sustained period of time, especially uphill at altitudes above 6,000 feet, should be on the highways and not the freeways.

For example, bicycles are allowed on highways but not on freeways.

When making a right turn onto a two lane highway it is very valuable to be able to accelerate from near zero to the posted limit at a rather risk pace. Especially in the fog.

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by PopBeavers

...Any vehicle that can not maintain 45 mph for a sustained period of time, especially uphill at altitudes above 6,000 feet, should be on the highways and not the freeways...

That would put a lot of motorhomes and heavy trucks off the road. Or maybe that's the point?

I've always felt that California's 5 vehicles-behind-you law was a simple exercise in courtesy that makes things better for everybody.

The California law that has me baffled is the one that requires a tag on my pillows from the California Department of Random Intrusions and Pillow Regulation.

Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure

That would put a lot of motorhomes and heavy trucks off the road. Or maybe that's the point?

I've always felt that California's 5 vehicles-behind-you law was a simple exercise in courtesy that makes things better for everybody.

The California law that has me baffled is the one that requires a tag on my pillows from the California Department of Random Intrusions and Pillow Regulation.

On very steep freeways in California, at high altitude, they frequently have a truck lane. The speed limit is 30 mph. This is an additional lane, much like a passing lane, added mainly for trucks. Crossing Donner Summit on I80 is a typical situation where there is a truck lane. Slow moving passenger vehicles are sometimes in the lane. When these cars are driving slower than the trucker wants to go it is not unusual to see some dangerous tailgating going on.

If your top speed is 20 mph I think it would be safer to take the frontage road than to block traffic on the freeway, but that is just my opinion.

My father-in-law had a 28 foot Southwind and then later a 32 foot Bounder. Neither MH had any problems going over Donner Summit (elevation 7,056 feet). But, they were not towing a toad.

As a follow on...

Interstate 80 over Donner Summit has an average daily vehicle count of 30,000. The average number of trucks is 6,000 per day.

There are no passing lanes. There are truck lanes at the steep uphill sections. The speed limit in a truck lane is 30 mph.

Otherwise there are two lanes each direction.

At times it is bumper to bumper traffic, just like you see in movies about Los Angeles. At other times it is a race track, with 80 mph in the fast lane not unusual.

In my opinion, no matter what you are driving (or towing) unless you can do a reasonably good job of keeping up with the vehicle in front of you then you should consider a different route, for safety reasons. Drivers will pass you and then pull in front of you with very little clearance. On very rare occasions some very inconsiderate driver will pass you using the right shoulder.

I have around 12,000 pounds rolling down the road. When I pass cars that are unable to drive the speed limit I have to be a little careful when changing lanes to pass them. I can understand an undersized city commuter car that can only drive 45 mph. but 30? Go rent a car intended for freeways instead of city streets.

There, I feel better now. I'll get off of my soap box.