AWD versus 4WD versus 2WD

PopBeavers...you must have a very trusting wife!

I just thought I'd update my search progress (or lack of). I seem to be finding it more difficult to make vehicle decisions. It used to seem so simple. Anyway, since what we call a tow vehicle is actually used for non-towing about 85 percent of the time, I'm trying to get a good road vehicle that doubles as a tow vehicle. I think I've narrowed things down to:

1. Toyota Highlander - Reliability, comfortable ride and will tow 5000 lbs. I'm a little concerned about the torque of only 247 lb-ft, and was looking for a torque versus rpm curve but can't find one. My present Pathfinder is only 240 HP (the Highlander is 270) but has 265 lb-ft of torque and peaks about 3200 rpm.

2. Chevy Traverse - All around comfort and power for towing (rated 5200 lbs). Long-term reliability of the Traverse is an unknown...but then...so is my lifespan and a lot of other things.

3. Nissan Pathfinder - I've loved our 2002 Pathfinder but don't have the confidence in Nissan I once had. Their reliability seems to have gone down quite a bit (Consumer Reports and JD Power). I do like the 6000 lb towing capacity...am not wild about their recommendation of premium fuel but then...I've rarely gone with the highest grade in my 2002 even though it has the same recommendation.

4. Honda Ridgeline - Just about have ruled it out now because the road noise is pretty obvious and I'm thinking about that with long trips. I really liked the comfort and ride and the trunk beneath the bed. I am a little concerned about the torque (just about exactly the same as the Highlander).

One more that I haven't tried but plan to: Tacoma 4.0L 4x4 with tow package is rated at 6500 lbs. I had not considered that before and have been reading the forum posts about Tacoma. Most of it sounds pretty favorable. I know brulaz has now fallen deeply in love with the new Ford F-150 and that sounds great, but we really want something that fits into the garage. If we were to go with a pickup truck, that would mean Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tacoma or Honda Ridgeline...I think.

We will be towing a TM 2720 (don't have it yet!) over the mountains of New Mexico and Colorado on most of our trips...so...we won't spend much time at lower elevations and on flat terrain.

If anyone has any other recommendations or comments on these vehicles, I would love to hear them. Interesting how my initial post has migrated a bit from AWD/4WD/2WD. I know I'm not going to get a 2WD...at least I know that part!

By the way...I'm learning a lot by searching this forum. It's a great resource!

Our Chevy Avalanche rides like a luxury car, tows 5,000 lb and FITS in the garage. Maybe another contender to check out.

Don't forget to consider the payload as well as tow capacity. That's what forced our move up to the F150.

But we carry a ton (literally) of stuff in the truck, and the Elkmont's tongue weight alone is about 600#.

rjlwork...the Avalanche looks nice but the 221 inch length would be a really tight fit in our garage. When the previous owners of our house remodeled the kitchen, they mounted the old kitchen cabinets in the garage. It's really nice, but takes a few feet away from our vehicles.

brulaz...yeah, the Traverse and Highlander payloads are above 1700 while the Pathfinder is only about 1050. I'm thinking the Pathfinder payload is only about double the TM 2720 tongue weight.

Still doing my homework...thanks.

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by mrgoodwx

1. Toyota Highlander - Reliability, comfortable ride and will tow 5000 lbs. I'm a little concerned about the torque of only 247 lb-ft, and was looking for a torque versus rpm curve but can't find one. My present Pathfinder is only 240 HP (the Highlander is 270) but has 265 lb-ft of torque and peaks about 3200 rpm.

Here's a torque curve from a stock Toyota 3.5L V6 that I found once before for a similar discussion on another thread:

http://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/69-8611_dyno.pdf

And here's a post where I compared HP and Torque of my current TV/TM to the 37 foot motorhome I drove out West ten years ago:

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...t=10652&page=8

The bottom line is that Toyota 6 (and probably lots of other contemporary 6'es) have great torque and broad power curves. They should be able to take you anywhere you want to go on the Interstate highways. If you lived out there or wanted to follow Popbeavers, of course that could be another story.

Originally Posted by mrgoodwx

brulaz...yeah, the Traverse and Highlander payloads are above 1700 while the Pathfinder is only about 1050. I'm thinking the Pathfinder payload is only about double the TM 2720 tongue weight.

Have you looked at Ford's Explorer? You might get an older body-on-frame one used, if that's a concern. I think its payload is similar to the Traverse and Highlander. They recently switched to unibody, but it still has a high payload, and a good AWD (or whatever the correct terminolgy is!).

Like the Nissan, my Tacoma's payload was only about 1050#. Not enough for us.

And I think the Tacoma has the same V6 as the Highlander. Fairly low torque in the 1500-2500 rpm range. But that engine would have been fine if the Tacoma's tranny had another gear or 2 (or 3) and a tow-haul mode that would lock up the converter most of the time. And if it had more sound deadening in the cab. Non-turbo gas engines develop most of their torque at high rpms, so they down-shift more often to keep the rpms up when the torque is needed. The Tacoma got noisy at times.

But maybe, like me (a Torque junky), you want lots of low-end torque in a TV. In SUV's, there's the very pricy German diesels (VW Touareg is the most affordable). Or Ford is putting the 3.5L V6 BiTurbo in the 2013 Explorer Sport (but they're emphasizing sportiness over tow/haul, so ...). Or, if you're lucky, you might find a used Jeep Grand Cherokee with that Mercedes V6 diesel in it. They're rare though, and I think they stopped the diesel in 2009 or 2010.

Anyway, looking for a new TV is lots of fun if you're in no rush. Think I'm enjoying your search as much as you are!

brulaz...I spent an hour or so the other night reading passionate debate between the body on frame (bof) guys and the unibody guys. I think I've about decided I can go either way on this one. I do think I need to at least check out the Tacoma so I'll probably go drive one in the next 1-2 days. I believe that engine is different from the Highlander V6. The Tacoma is a 4.0L that produces a max 236 HP and 266 ft-lb torque while the Highlander is a 3.5L with 270 HP and 248 ft-lb. The Tacoma maxes out (in both respects) at a lower rpm than the Highlander.

Mr. Adventure...thanks for the links. I ended up reading that whole thread, which got me looking at axle ratios again. It seems most of the new car-based vehicles I'm looking at have final drive ratios under 3.2, quite a bit different from my 2002 Pathfinder.

All this makes me think I'm going to take the camper to our 5 acres in the Sacramento Mountains very soon. I've always used the Pathfinder's 4WD L to nudge the camper (in reverse) up an incline. I want to see if the Pathfinder can to the job in 4WD H.

It's good to not be in a big hurry. I'm betting I'll get a new tow vehicle before the end of this month. Thanks for your comments...

Originally Posted by brulaz

Like the Nissan, my Tacoma's payload was only about 1050#. Not enough for us.

And I think the Tacoma has the same V6 as the Highlander. Fairly low torque in the 1500-2500 rpm range.

The new Tacoma has a 1415 lbs payload.

The Taco has a truck engine (4.0) and the Highlander has a car engine (3.5). The 4.0 produces over 200 lbs ft at approx 3200 rpm and has the best torque curve out of all the other vehicles in its class. With a 1415 payload and a 6500lbs/650lbs tongue rating it makes for a VERY good TV for the Trailmanor. Check out the graphs.

http://special-reports.pickuptrucks....-dyno-day.html

Koz

Originally Posted by Pitbull

The new Tacoma has a 1415 lbs payload.

Be careful, payload depends highly upon the trucks configuration and options. Mine was a 4x4, Double Cab so probably had the least payload of them all.

And I know a guy on an F150 forum with a new F150 Ecoboost Crew Cab with all the options that can carry less than my old Tacoma.

It's what's on the door panel that counts.

The 4.0 produces over 200 lbs ft at approx 3200 rpm

I really liked the Tacoma 4L V6, but like most (all?) non-turbo gassers, it develops it's torque at higher rpms. My preference is more torque at lower rpms.

EDIT: and about those dyno graphs.

They're pretty typical of performance orientated dyno-curves. They don't start until 2500-3000 rpm. IMHO not that important for tow/haul. 90% of the time in my Tacoma I was below 2500 rpm (And when it had to go above that to get the torque, you could really hear and feel it). 99% of the time in my F150 Ecoboost I'm below 2000 rpm.

Last Saturday my son was driving down a road that was last paved a very long time ago. There was no line painted along the edge of the pavement to show where the shoulder started. There was an old worn out line in the center, that was only visible during daylight. There was a campground at the end of the paved road.

He was not towing. My son and friends were tent camping at the end of the road. Other campers had large 5th wheel trailers.

Driving home it was dark and raining hard. Visibility was poor.

He drifted onto the right shoulder, which immediately and unexpectedly caused a significant drift to the right.

He would have gone farther than he did except the barbed wire fence stopped him, just like nets do on aircraft carriers.

If he had 4WD he could probably have backed out. But not with 2WD. Not in the mud and grass and tangled wire and steel fence posts underneath stuck around the transmission. Skid plates would also have been useful.

Fortunately he had two friends with him in trucks and they were able to pull him out using motorcycle straps as a rope. Always carry a tow strap when leaving a freeway.

Coincidentally, behind them was a pair of ranch hands, with tools and parts to repair the fence. Four posts were replaced. My son and his buddies helped.

If his buddies were not there then it would have been a cold wet night. Quite likely the ranch hands were the last vehicle that would have been driving there until dawn.

In the future, he should never drive alone to that location. He should always have a friend in another vehicle. One of them should have 4WD.

He will be looking into a satellite phone soon. He will also look into the emergency beacon devices.

AAA would not tow him. Perhaps because of the time and distance.

It took his insurance company an hour and a half to find a towing company that was willing to go out to get him. The were 80 miles away.

The nearest place where a cell phone worked was 40 miles away.

This location is 2 hours south east of San Jose.

Yet another reason I like having my 4WD. I like going to campgrounds off of the beaten path. This campground is at an off-road riding area. Taht is why quite a few people go there.