Towing with a minivan

[Nasafan]

My error, I meant to state HD oil cooler to address one of the earlier posts. I spoke to a very experienced service person at my local dealership and he assured me that the 2010 Sienna already comes with the HD oil cooler. It also comes with the power steering cooler. The so called $220 tow package only includes wiring and harness.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Nasafan

My error, I meant to state HD oil cooler to address one of the earlier posts. I spoke to a very experienced service person at my local dealership and he assured me that the 2010 Sienna already comes with the HD oil cooler. It also comes with the power steering cooler. The so called $220 tow package only includes wiring and harness.

Here could be a possible issue....... If the vehicle does not have a factory tow package, you may be towing over the factory rated limit. Read your owner's Manual carefully. It may state a higher rating for a vehicle with tow package.

The reason this is important is because your vehicle is under factory warranty and if you have a mechanical failure that is determined to be from towing over ANY of the vehicle's rated limits, you may be required to pay for the repair.

This can be a real problem for people that have vehicles that are under factory warranty. That's one of the reasons that I prefer to purchase a vehicle that is just out of warranty and well cared for. I save $10K-$15K off the purchase price and consider that as my warranty $. If I choose to abuse my vehicle, I pay the consequences and have no one to argue with other than myself. It's a lot less stressful that way......to me.....

[ThePair]

Originally Posted by Nasafan

My error, I meant to state HD oil cooler to address one of the earlier posts. I spoke to a very experienced service person at my local dealership and he assured me that the 2010 Sienna already comes with the HD oil cooler. It also comes with the power steering cooler. The so called $220 tow package only includes wiring and harness.

My understanding is that the 2010 stock Sienna has everything for towing except the oil cooler; that is the only part of the tow package worth anything, but unless you purchased a Canadian model, or one with the tow package, you are likely missing that part.

You can confirm it, apparently, by looking carefully at your engine. I cannot find the posted pictures, but this thread and others like it might help:

http://siennachat.com/forum/index.php?topic=116.msg484

From what I've read, 2010 is no different than 2008-2009, meaning that the tow prep includes the oil cooler, which is needed for the higher capacity tow rating. I'd have the "experienced service person" show you the oil cooler in person to verify that it's in your engine; if he can't, then I'd question his facts--because everyone on the Siennachat forums would disagree with him that it's a stock part.

Poke around the forum, there's a lot of useful information on towing with a Sienna

Not to muddy the waters, but back to the transmission cooler. You need an "auxiliary transmission cooler" in ADDITION the standard one all cars have built in. Yes you can tow your TM without it and no bells or whistles will go off, but before long and many times while towing the transmission could fail. The fact that the tow package is $200 something is a pretty good indication of not much more than a hitch and some wiring and no HD brakes or aux trans cooler.

[ThePair]

Originally Posted by rumbleweed

Not to muddy the waters, but back to the transmission cooler. You need an "auxiliary transmission cooler" in ADDITION the standard one all cars have built in. Yes you can tow your TM without it and no bells or whistles will go off, but before long and many times while towing the transmission could fail. The fact that the tow package is $200 something is a pretty good indication of not much more than a hitch and some wiring and no HD brakes or aux trans cooler.

His Sienna will have the appropriate Trans Cooler for towing. There's no alternate part. The only thing that needs to be checked on the newer Siennas is the Oil Cooler.

It's just the way Toyota made them.

[Nasafan]

I'll tell ya, I love this forum. I love to sail also. I poke around the sailing forums and the SiennaChat forum and one thing is for sure, it is hard to get anyone to completely agree on anything regarding rigs / rigging (including experienced service folks) and more often than not safety issues. One can read the Tires Tires Tires section of this forum and decide to never leave home. Same with a sailboat and leaving the dock. I think the best thing to do is make whatever you decide to tow with as safe and robust as possible and drive SLOW.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by rumbleweed

Not to muddy the waters, but back to the transmission cooler. You need an "auxiliary transmission cooler" in ADDITION the standard one all cars have built in. Yes you can tow your TM without it and no bells or whistles will go off, but before long and many times while towing the transmission could fail. The fact that the tow package is $200 something is a pretty good indication of not much more than a hitch and some wiring and no HD brakes or aux trans cooler.

Nasafan may want to be very careful about what he adds to his new vehicle while it is still under warranty.

I am one of the biggest fans of auxiliary trans coolers around. My motto is always, "Bigger is better" (just like the fore-stay on a sailboat ). However, in this case, the owner should be careful not to do anything to his vehicle that could be construed to add to any possible future break-down.

I was a dealership Service Manager for many years. I can tell you that anytime that there is a major component failure and evidence of the owner tampering with the vehicles systems that could , in any way, be construed as contributing to the failure it's not a good thing. The problem is, it's really the technician that is working on the vehicle that opens the can of worms. He has NO choice....he has to cover his a$$.

Let's say that the vehicle has a major transmission failure.......the vehicle is towed to the closest dealer for "Warranty repair". The Service Writer opens a repair order and gives the vehicle to a tech. The tech discovers a major transmission failure and during his initial inspections, sees that an auxiliary trans cooler has been installed. He HAS to note that on the repair order. Let me tell you, if that trans cooler was not installed by an authorized Factory Dealership.....it is all down-hill from there and you'd better be prepared to break out the old credit card........

The other issue is.....it really doesn't matter what is included in a factory tow package. The fact is, it may include absolutely nothing more than a $200 additional charge (no hard parts at all). That charge could merely be part of the additional warranty expense to cover future damages due to towing at the heavier rate. Let's face it, part of the price that a buyer pays for a new vehicle (or any other product) includes warranty repairs. There may be anywhere from several hundred to several thousand dollars built into the retail price of the vehicle just for this purpose.

If you did not buy the "Tow Package" you may have warranty issues if you have a major component failure due to towing.

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by Nasafan

The only problem with the Sienna is that it is low in the back and the Curt hitch makes it even lower.

My son's Sienna and my other son's Town & Country have much softer springs than my Highlander ("softer" springs are springs that allow further motion to support the same load, and for example, are used in cars vs trucks to provide a softer ride). The obvious choices to raise the rear end: 1) tighten your WDH, 2) reduce your tongue load (carry propane in only one bottle, shift weight forward in the TV and aft in the trailer, don't carry water in the tank), or 3) stiffen the rear springs with an aftermarket product like the air bags used by an earlier poster on this thread.

The WDH works by transferring tongue weight from the rear axle of the tow vehicle forward to the front axle and back to the trailer axle. TrailManors with 15" tires, like the 3023, tend to have lots of trailer axle capacity. TM's with 14" tires, like the 2720's and 2619, tend to start out closer to their axle limits, which may limit how much you can crank up the WDH.

Formulas for towing limits are only as good as the quality of the data we have to put into them. Often the basics are surprisingly hard to come by, where the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) and the GVWR Gross Vehicle Weight Rating are in different places and sometimes difficult to find. Even then, we're still left guessing at the curb weight we're starting with for the Tow Vehicle, and we have most manufacturers telling us to subtract the tow vehicle loads from the tow rating to figure out how heavy a trailer you can tow, as if we know these exactly off the top of our heads.

The Toyota towing guide I posted earlier in this thread emphasizes attention to axle weight limits while not exceeding a specified maximum trailer weight rating. The good news is that axle weights are objective and obtainable, and the axle weight limits for the tow vehicle are on the driver's side door post. The only good way to get your axle weights is a weigh station, which isn't convenient for most of us until we're actually loaded up and on a trip. But, it's the only way to really know where you stand.

[Frenchy]

I would like to point out that there is a difference between axle capacity and the tire capacity on that axle. If you have upgraded from 14" to 15" tires, your tire capacity will increase but your axle capacity does not. On my 98 3023, the axle capacity is 3500# so even if you have tires that can handle 4000#, you should not put more than 3500# on the axle or you will damage the axle.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

I would like to point out that there is a difference between axle capacity and the tire capacity on that axle. If you have upgraded from 14" to 15" tires, your tire capacity will increase but your axle capacity does not. On my 98 3023, the axle capacity is 3500# so even if you have tires that can handle 4000#, you should not put more than 3500# on the axle or you will damage the axle.

Stating, "you should not put more than 3500# on the axle or you will damage the axle"....may be a bit strong. We really haven't seen any evidence of that.

I'm not encouraging exceeding ANY weight limits and doing so may carry some risk. We have seen plenty of evidence that tire weight ratings should be strictly adhered to and if you exceed those limits, your chances of tire and trailer damage are increased. We just haven't seen any of that (that I am aware of) with axle damage.