Another new Elkmont report

Thinking back to when I had my 2003 2720, I don't remember a cold air return anywhere. The furnace was located under the curb side dinette seat, with 1 heat register there. Did I miss that, or am I just forgetful ??

[cochise]

For those with a Suburban furnace, here is some information: There are two models of furnaces used by TM in the Elkmonts. One is the NT-20SE, which has a front grille expelling the heat from the furnace. It also has a 4" outlet that should be connected to an inlet in the bathroom. To service this model one removes the front grille and now has access to the heat exchange and all the rest through this opening.

The other model is the NT-S, which TM has been using in some Elkmonts. This model is different in that it does NOT have a front grille, but supply heated air to the trailer through TWO (2) 4" air inlets opposite each other at the front. For this model which does NOT have the front grille, the factory states:

Return Air
Return air must be from the living area of the coach.
NOTE: RV’s that have a wall of separation to a cargo area (Toy Box) to transport internal combustion engine vehicles must not have return air opening from this area.
An opening must be provided in the interior cabinetry of the coach directly in front of the furnace. The opening must allow for free, unobstructed removal of the furnace. This opening may be used as a means of providing circulating return air to the furnace. Other openings may be used as well. The minimum return air to the furnace must total 55 square inches free area. It is important that sufficient return air be provided to insure normal heating and operation of the furnace. Also, adequate clearances must be maintained around the furnace cabinet so that the unit will be accessible for servicing. Failure to provide minimum return air as well as an adequate opening for furnace removal voids the warranty.
In the USA, the installation must conform with local building codes. In the absence of local building codes, refer to the latest edition of:
1-Standard for Recreational Vehicles NFPA 1192.
2-National Fuel Code ANSI Z223.1/NFPA 54.
The furnace must be electrically grounded in accordance with the latest edition of the National Electrical Code NFPA 70. The installation of the furnace shall be in accordance with any applicable local codes and regulations.
In Canada, the furnace must be installed in accordance with:
1. Standard CAN/CSA Z240.0.2-08 - Recreational Vehicles
2. Standard CAN/CSA Z240.6.2-08/C22.2 No. 148-08 Electrical Requirements for Recreational Vehicles.
3. Standard CAN/CSA Z240.4.2-08 Installation Requirements for Propane Appliances and Equipment in Recreational Vehicles.

This has clearly been ignored by TM, hence the poor performance and later BIG problems when the furnace has to be serviced, as there is NO access to the furnace interior unless the whole furnace is removed, and since it SHOULD be screwed to the floor this is next to impossible. If it is not screwed to the floor it is in violation of several codes, and has been deemed unsafe by the manufacturer. I received notice telling me NOT to use it until these problems had been corrected.

If there is interest, I have the installation manual for the NT-20S model and the user manual for both the NT-20S and SE models. Suburban is very serious about deviations from their installation instructions, but it seems that for some totally unknown reason TM does not care about that, but will explain everything with fantasies of theirs.

[Wavery]

I don't mean to add "fuel to your fire" here but the problem may be even more serious than what you may be thinking. Then again.......it could be a non-issue.

If the furnace does not have enough return air in the fresh air chamber, it not only impedes the performance of the furnace but it MAY be a serious fire hazard if the furnace doesn't have a high-heat cut-off switch (I don't know if it does or doesn't).

The furnace is still intaking enough outside air to fuel the combustion of the propane in the combustion chamber of the furnace. That combusted propane is converted to heat (that part of the furnace is obviously working properly). If not enough heat is removed by the circulation of air in the fresh air chamber, I would think that heat may build up to the point of being hazardous and potentially causing a fire, unless the furnace has a high-heat shut-off switch of some sort. I would think that a high-heat cut-off would be essential to this type of furnace in the event that the fan fails.

If it does have a high-heat shut-off switch and the furnace is not shutting down on it's own, your theory may be a mute point, as it would seem that the furnace must be getting enough fresh air to keep the furnace from over-heating, otherwise the heat build-up would surely shut the furnace down (unless the cut-off is inoperable). That would mean that all of the heat that is being produced by the furnace is being released into the living area of the camper. If it isn't.......where is it going? That furnace would have to be getting hotter than hell if there is not enough fresh-air circulation and the furnace is not automatically shutting down.

I'm not trying to minimize the complaint about non-compliance to the installation requirements of the furnace. I just think that the may be a little different than you might be thinking it is.

Just food for thought.

One of the Suburban manuals talks about a "limit switch" that is temperature actuated to prevent over-heating and a "sail switch" that ensures that there's a correct amount of air flow. The NT-20SE manual has both of these indicated in it's circuit diagram.

My guess is that the system is just not working efficiently. It's probably not dangerous, or the limit switch would cut in. I suspect that that the outside exhaust stack is removing a lot of heat that could be kept inside if there was more inside airflow, and if there was less re-cycling of heated air.

This is a link to a picture of our furnace from the right side with the panel removed. There are no round 4" cutouts on this side, unlike the NT-20S. So I'm guessing this is an NT-20SE with the end vent covered.

http://picasaweb.google.ca/lh/photo/...eat=directlink

What I hope to find out this week, is whether I can just add a proper NT-20SE end vent. It may require a small extension to the furnace, but that should be doable. I've seen pictures of Elkmonts with it. The side vent would then be only for the bathroom. We'll see.

[cochise]

Originally Posted by brulaz

This is a link to a picture of our furnace from the right side with the panel removed. There are no round 4" cutouts on this side, unlike the NT-20S. So I'm guessing this is an NT-20SE with the end vent covered.

http://picasaweb.google.ca/lh/photo/...eat=directlink

What I hope to find out this week, is whether I can just add a proper NT-20SE end vent. It may require a small extension to the furnace, but that should be doable. I've seen pictures of Elkmonts with it. The side vent would then be only for the bathroom. We'll see.

The picture on picasso makes me believe that you may have a NT-20SE BUT with a NT-20 S front cover. I can see on the picture that there is what appears to be a serial number written with a "sharpie" to the rear on the furnace case. Make sure you have that number to give to the Customer Service Rep at Suburban.

And yes there is a high-heat-cut-out switch build into these furnaces. However my furnace is only held in place by the propane gas line coming through the floor. That is a code violation. And it is also placed on top of many wires, also a code violation.

Hi'
My wife and I purchased a 2010 Elkmont in Jan. 2010 The first time we took it on a trip we had a heavy rain the second night out, and we had six leakage points in the roof. After much frustration Tailmanor invited us back to the factory in Lake City Tenn. They kept the trailer for a week and repaired it. They were kind enough to re-deliver it to Ohio for us. But it was still leaking. We took it back to the dealer in Madison Ohio and they repaired an air-conditioner leak and said all was good. It was raining the day we picked it up and drove home with it again and before we got home it was leaking again. The dealer has now had it again for three weeks and we have lost faith in the Elkmont product.

[cochise]

Originally Posted by jollyroger

Hi'
My wife and I purchased a 2010 Elkmont in Jan. 2010 The first time we took it on a trip we had a heavy rain the second night out, and we had six leakage points in the roof. After much frustration Tailmanor invited us back to the factory in Lake City Tenn. They kept the trailer for a week and repaired it. They were kind enough to re-deliver it to Ohio for us. But it was still leaking. We took it back to the dealer in Madison Ohio and they repaired an air-conditioner leak and said all was good. It was raining the day we picked it up and drove home with it again and before we got home it was leaking again. The dealer has now had it again for three weeks and we have lost faith in the Elkmont product.

Could it be that the weep holes at the roof are the culprits?

I am including a picture of each of the weep holes on my Elkmont. It appears that some holes on other Elkmonts mnay have bee drilled with a different trajectory (the angle of entry when a thin rod is inserted into the hole). If it is done from above the roof line it most likely will leak, whereas if the hioles are drilled from below (at an upward angle) they will probably be ok.

Take a good look at your trailers roof the holes are located in the molding juet below the roof at each corner of the trailer.

Ouch. More leaks. Ours have disappeared after I ripped out the old loose caulking and put in new G.E. Silicon II (knock on wood).

But I haven't really had a chance to take it on the road since then. I do hope it's fixed.

[cochise]

Originally Posted by brulaz

Ouch. More leaks. Ours have disappeared after I ripped out the old loose caulking and put in new G.E. Silicon II (knock on wood).

But I haven't really had a chance to take it on the road since then. I do hope it's fixed.

Where exactly did you find the loose caulking? Was it along the molding where the roof meets the side of the trailer? We don't see too much rain here in AZ but they are predicting rain or thunderstorms the next two days so I wanted to keep an eye out for that problem as well.