Drain Valve Lubrication

So how do you lubricate the drain valves (grey and black tanks)?
My tanks are clean, so now would be a good time to do it, and the slide valves seem to be getting stiffer.

Just clean the sliders with q-tips and add petroleum jelly?
Or is there a special grease?
Or do you tear apart the drain valve first?

Or doesn't Thetford have something that you just pour in the tank? How does that work?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[ShrimpBurrito]

I used one of those "dump-in" lubricants once, and it didn't work very well. For any pour-in product that has flowing viscosity, I just don't see how it can provide any benefit after you dump. It would seem like you'd have to use it every time you charged the toilet, and I have no interest in doing that.

I think one of the primary reasons the toilet dump valve gets to the point where it leaks is because the seal deforms, and it does so as a result of the gate valve being forced up against it. I think it deforms, instead of conforms, because it is not lubricated. So I think there are practical reasons to keeping the seal lubed other than just for ease of operation.

About 12-18 months ago when I had the toilet removed to replace the seals on the EZ Slide Valve (the second time in less than a year), I generously lubed all the moving parts (except the handle) with Dow Corning 111 Valve Lubricant and Sealant. I thought I got the recommendation to do so here, but I couldn't find any mention of the stuff with the search engine. In any event, it works beautifully. The valve still slides like it did when I lubed it, and there has been no seal deformation. Highly recommended. I think it is designed for use in valves under very high pressure, so while it may be overkill in this application, it seems like a sure-fix. I don't think you'd be able to lube it adequately without taking apart the valve.

It has roughly the consistency of Neosporin....maybe even petroleum jelly. It comes in packets, toothpaste-sized tubes, and caulking tubes IIRC. I got the toothpaste-sized tube for ~$15, and it will undoubtedly last me as long as I have the trailer.

Dave

[cochise]

Originally Posted by brulaz

So how do you lubricate the drain valves (grey and black tanks)?
My tanks are clean, so now would be a good time to do it, and the slide valves seem to be getting stiffer.

Just clean the sliders with q-tips and add petroleum jelly?
Or is there a special grease?
Or do you tear apart the drain valve first?

Or doesn't Thetford have something that you just pour in the tank? How does that work?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

NEVER EVER use petroleum jelly on rubber seals. It will most certainly destroy the rubber in a very short time. Hardware stores sell a little tin/can/jar of “plumbers Silicone grease” which is designed for moving parts in faucets and valves. It cost about $ 2-3 and will last for a long time. But you will have to apply it by smearing it into the grove the valve slides in.

Another method is using a spray can of liquid silicone spray. May not last as long as the grease but it is easily applied with the valve open.

Good luck with it.

[Wavery]

I think that the valves are designed to not need a lubricant. I don't know this for a fact but I would assume that the slide seal may be made of a self-lubricating material like Teflon.

My trailer is 12-years-old and the valves have not been lubricated or replaced. The previous owner used the trailer as much as we do and I'm sure that he didn't do anything. He gave me the "Maintenance Log" to the trailer (the guy was super anal). He listed everything that he did to the trailer, including washing, and servicing of any kind. He had all servicing done by the TM Dealer in Oregon and kept all receipts. He didn't do anything himself. I'm sure that if the valves had been lubed, he would have a bill for it and noted it in the log book.

I think that the issue is more about flushing the tank and keeping the valves free of debris that might harden an cause damage to the seal. I don't think that "Lubricating" is an issue........JMHO.

[ShrimpBurrito]

BTW, in reference to harveyrv's post, I have never felt the need to lube the drain valves outside the trailer -- just the toilet valve in the bathroom. While any of the valves may be designed for no lube -- the toilet drain valve has a Teflon or nylon gate -- if they are difficult to operate, there is no harm in lubing them. And in the toilet valve case, it seems to be good preventive maintenance in preventing the seal from deforming.

Dave

Dave, I was referring to the drain valves outside the trailer. Our trailer has a standard toilet.

Maybe I'll just use a toothbrush and soap to make sure the grooves are clean. They do look like teflon. It's possible that any grease I add would attract gunk and make things worse. If anything, maybe a very light silicone (or teflon ?) spray like Cochise suggests. We'll see ...

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

BTW, in reference to harveyrv's post, I have never felt the need to lube the drain valves outside the trailer -- just the toilet valve in the bathroom. While any of the valves may be designed for no lube -- the toilet drain valve has a Teflon or nylon gate -- if they are difficult to operate, there is no harm in lubing them. And in the toilet valve case, it seems to be good preventive maintenance in preventing the seal from deforming.

Dave

I agree that there ~may not be any "Harm" in lubricating the seals as long as one uses the proper lubricant. IMO, the chances of damaging the valve by using the wrong lubricant (such as any petroleum based product) is greater than just leaving the valve alone.

I also think that any "Lubricant" is doing more to keep the surface free of damaging debris or hard water deposits than it does actual lubricating.

The best thing that you can to for any valve with a Teflon seal is to work the valve and flush it occasionally to break-up any deposits (including environmental, airborne chemicals). The most harmful thing is to let the material dry out and crack from non-use and exposure (sorta like tires).

The whole concept behind the Teflon product is that it is "Self-lubricating" and never needs additional lubrication. However, it does need to be kept free of harmful substances.

Has anyone used the Thetford liquid to lubricate the toilet valve? Seems like a decent idea when the TM is in storage.

I use the Thetford lube on all 3 valves....not sure how good it is, but when sitting in storage all winter, I figured it couldn't hurt?????? No issues with any of them so I'll say it's because I use the lube. LOL Makes me feel better.
Figure the bottle will last 2-3 years and it cost about $9. i think. I'll take the chance.

I removed the Slide-EZ valve from our Electra Magic in order replace its seals and o-ring (Thetford seal kit #09872). I also had to deal with a cracked plastic cover beneath the seat which I had professionally repaired.

You can see from the photos of the opened and separated sections of the valve body that the blade is plastic. I think the teflon seal (at least I think its teflon) would conform & slide more freely across a stainless blade. But I'm not sure about this.

Our trailer is an '07, and it has been on approx. 29 outings since we purchased it. So, it has seen pretty regular use. The toilet has never been used for solid waste -- not even tissue.

As you can see from the photos -- the teflon seal tore rather than conform to the pressure of the plastic blade. I kind of remember encounting resistance in closing it once. I've noticed that the torn seal is much less pliable than the new the replacement seal -- but I would have thought that it was still was serviceable.

So, I'm asking myself how may I have contributed to its failure. I regularly use Thetford's toilet seal lubricant and it is my practice to leave about a gal. of water with a small amount of Thetford's blue de-odorizer in the toilet.

Our garage can get pretty warm here Goodyear -- easily 115 in the summer -- so, I reasoned that the seals would be less apt to dry out if they were kept wet. I've even put clingwrap over the cover to keep the water from evaporating.

And, when I disassembled the toilet and valve -- I did not observe any gumming of chemicals that would obstruct the blade's movement. Also, our primary water source has been public campgrounds. I'm not sure if hardness has been a factor. There were no calcium deposits.

I'd like to think that the loss of pliability was the leading cause. Clearly, if you encounter resistance in closing the valve (like I did) -- and you use an inordinant amount of force (like I did) -- you are probably going to deform, then tear your seal (like I did).

Maybe if I had "backed off" -- the moment I felt resistance in closing -- and added full strength, Thetford toilet seal lubricant -- then gently wiggled it closed --I would be in bed, instead of working on this post.

I'm inclined to use the Dow Corning product or something like it -- when I put it all back together tomorrow.

I'm sure open to advice. I'd prefer not to go through this again for a long, long time. Eric