Adding Solar Panels

[Bill]

I am seriously considering a solar kit for the TM. This Christmas we will be dry camping in Big Bend Natl Park for a couple of weeks and I know it will be cold at night. I have mentioned the Heater Buddy and the Olympian heater but think that I need to consider electrical needs too.

Chris -
Have you sized out your needs? Most people seem to end up somewhere between 100-200 watts. Is it just two of you, or do you have a family?

What is the possibility of using a non-mounted panel, one which you can move around to capture the sun?

There are arguments both ways. I plan to buy a solar system in December, when we go through Flagstaff, and I plan to use non-mounted panels. People put non-mounted systems on poles, but I don't know why. I plan to cobble up a tiltable frame and set up the panels on the ground (or on the picnic table, or the roof of the TM).

Camping World sells a "plug and play" system. Any feedback on their system?

'Spensive. These appear to be non-mounted systems, too. If you are fully convinced of your non-DIY status, and willing to pay for that status, these are probably fine systems. There doesn't seem to be much difference among systems. OTOH, there are only about three components in a solar system, and they are easy to wire up.

Let us know how you decide to go, and how you make out.

Bill

[RockyMtnRay]

I am seriously considering a solar kit for the TM. This Christmas we will be dry camping in Big Bend Natl Park for a couple of weeks and I know it will be cold at night. I have mentioned the Heater Buddy and the Olympian heater but think that I need to consider electrical needs too.

What is the possibility of using a non-mounted panel, one which you can move around to capture the sun?

Camping World sells a plug and play system. Any feedback on their system?

I am not electrical :'( and need to have someone do the wiring etc and want to keep it simple enough that no one can screw up my TM. Any advice for a non do-it-yourselfer would be appreciated.

Chris...

Your first step really should be to determine about how much electrical power you're typically using in a given day. A good way to start is to use RV Solar's worksheet: http://www.rvsolarelectric.com/custom.htm. Once you know your usage, then you have to ascertain how much generation capability you'll need to replenish the batteries. One of the considerations that's seldomly addressed in the solar power discussions is how much of your typical day will be cloudfree. Other considerations are sun angle (this becomes a significant issue for winter camping) and whether or not your typical campsite is shaded by trees, cliffs, canyon walls, etc. All of these considerations substantially reduce the amount of power that a given panel will produce over the course of a day...so you have to buy an oversized panel array to make up these reductions.

For example, my usage averages around 40 amp-hrs each day (mainly because of the furnace and lights). My panels can generate around 90 amp-hrs if they get a full 10 hours of unobstructed summer (high sun angle) sunshine. But in real world use, I've found that because of shadows from trees, etc, I seldomly was getting much current out of the panels before about 10:30 am...and afternoon storm clouds were pretty well shutting down current generation by 2:30 pm most days. The result was I was getting only about 4 hours (or 45 amp-hrs) of recharging current in a typical day. Somedays I got more, somedays I got a lot less...but I was really glad I bought about twice what I needed in terms of generation capability.

Do your calculations and think about your usage conditions...then post your data and I'll help you determine how large (and how many) a panel array you'll need.

After that can come the decision on where you get the panel(s), whether you want to go with non-permanently mounted panels, and where/how the panels interface to your TM's electrical system. This will likely be a major purchase (mine were nearly $1000 in parts alone plus another 15 hours or so of my time to do the mounting and wiring)....so I would suggest this be thought through very carefully.

Thanks guys for the help. I am currently mulling over my solar worksheet to see what my requirements will be. I also pulled out two books I had on hand, RVer's Guide to Solar Battery Charging, and Backwoods Solar Electric. They have given me some good info about electricity in general ???.

Ray, regarding your furnace use; are the hours mentioned total cycling hours (on and off based on thermostat setting)? And what temperature did you keep your furnace set at? Do you only use the one battery and if so, what kind of battery is it?

Thanks and I will keep you posted.

[RockyMtnRay]

Ray, regarding your furnace use; are the hours mentioned total cycling hours (on and off based on thermostat setting)? And what temperature did you keep your furnace set at? Do you only use the one battery and if so, what kind of battery is it?

Chris...

Those are run time hours for the furnace/blower...I did not include time when it is cycled off (the way I use it, it doesn't cycle off very much).

I set my thermostat somewhere around 65 (or lower) when I'm heating my TM. But keep in mind that my outside temperatures in early morning (when I mostly use my furnace) are typically in the 30s even in mid summer. And I let the interior of my TM drop down to around 45 during the night so the furnace has to do a lot of work just to bring the interior up to (and hold it) in the mid 60s. When I'm out camping I'm an early riser (~4 am) and early to bed kinda guy (usually before 9 pm) because of the need to do all of my outdoors activities before the afternoon thunderstorms arrive. So I hardly ever use the furnace during the day and very seldomly in the evening. But I do use it a lot in the morning before I head out for the day.

Yes, I'm operating with only one battery...the Group 27 RV/Marine unit my dealer installed when I bought my TM in June of 2002...when new it had roughly a 107 amp-hr capacity. Suspect by the end of last season that had decreased to somewhere around 80 to 90 amp-hrs due to multiple deep discharges in the two camping seasons.

I bit the bullet and ordered two 80 watt panels (Kyocera) and a regulator from Solar Electric in Scottsdale. With 2-day UPS, the whole thing cost me $905. They will be here this Friday.

My plan is not to install them on the roof, but instead keep them portable so I can spread them out in the sun and not worry about what direction the trailer is facing. When not in use, I'll put them in my pick-up truck.

Doug from Solar Electric makes it sound easy. We'll see - I'm pretty lame about anything that involves tools other than paper clips and pencil sharpeners. But he told me that the panels are plug and play - an orange extension cord should do it. All I have to remeber is: black is positive, and white is negative. Is that right? ???

We're taking off on November 22nd for two weeks in Utah and New Mexico. I'll let you know how long it takes me to put all that stuff together.

Oh yeah, I also purchased a catalytic heater - the smaller WAVE model. I have a big propane tank with a 12-foot hose, so I can set it on the ground outside and run the hose under the velcro.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Robin

I bit the bullet and ordered two 80 watt panels (Kyocera) and a regulator from Solar Electric in Scottsdale. With 2-day UPS, the whole thing cost me $905. My plan is not to install them on the roof, but instead keep them portable so I can spread them out in the sun and not worry about what direction the trailer is facing. When not in use, I'll put them in my pick-up truck.

Robin -
I have made the same decision - two Kyocera 80-watt panels, and portable mounting. I will buy mine from Wind-Sun in Flagstaff, but the Scottsdale outfit is good, too. Did you buy a pre-configured kit, or a la carte? Did you buy ready-made mounting frames for the panels, too, or will you make your own? If buying frames, what kind did you go with? The factory-made mounting frames looked pretty pricey to me, so I may not go that way.

Doug from Solar Electric makes it sound easy. He told me that the panels are plug and play - an orange extension cord should do it. All I have to remeber is: black is positive, and white is negative. Is that right?

Yup, it should be that easy. We'll be interested in whether the instructions are clear and easy, etc. I'm sure Chris_Bauer will be interested, and I certainly will. Did Doug have any comments or advice about portable mounting vs roof mounting?

Keep us posted!

Bill

[RockyMtnRay]

I bit the bullet and ordered two 80 watt panels (Kyocera) and a regulator from Solar Electric in Scottsdale. With 2-day UPS, the whole thing cost me $905. They will be here this Friday.

My plan is not to install them on the roof, but instead keep them portable so I can spread them out in the sun and not worry about what direction the trailer is facing. When not in use, I'll put them in my pick-up truck.

Doug from Solar Electric makes it sound easy. We'll see - I'm pretty lame about anything that involves tools other than paper clips and pencil sharpeners. But he told me that the panels are plug and play - an orange extension cord should do it. All I have to remeber is: black is positive, and white is negative. Is that right? ???

We're taking off on November 22nd for two weeks in Utah and New Mexico. I'll let you know how long it takes me to put all that stuff together.

Robin...
As Bill is hinting at, you defiintely don't want to just lay these panels on the ground. In addition to the great possibility they'd get stepped on /run over (the panel face is glass), there's the problem of dirt on the face (cuts light) or water/corrosion getting into the connectors on the back (my connector boxes weren't sealed). IMHO, you really need to fabricate some kind of mount...ideally one that can be tipped to maximize exposure to the low sun-angle during the winter.

Bill and Robin...

A very important consideration will be devising a way to easily connect to/disconnect the panel array from the controller (which really should be mounted inside the battery compartment...my controller instructions recommended not more than 5 feet from the battery). Whatever you use for a connector should be such that it will always be very low resistance as even a couple of ohms of resistance will noticeably cut the charging current the panels will produce. The instruction booklet I got from RV Solar made a very big deal about minimizing connector resistance and ensuring the connectors stayed at minimum resistance even after being exposed to the weather for a while.

As for cabling, yeah, good quality extension cord cabling (not smaller than 14 guage) is a pretty good solution cause its quite flexible. I used the heavy-duty UV stable cabling that's best for solar (very low resistance, very well insulated) but it's very stiff and not good for a portable installation.

[RockyMtnRay]

Oh yeah, I also purchased a catalytic heater - the smaller WAVE model. I have a big propane tank with a 12-foot hose, so I can set it on the ground outside and run the hose under the velcro.

I've been considering that one...I assume you're referring to the Wave models by Olympian. Keep in mind that those are low pressure heaters so you need a proper pressure regulator on your tank....or you could tap into your TM's gas lines. If I bought one of these heaters, I'd seriously consider having a gas outlet installed roughly where the wall alongside the refer meets the outside wall of my TM. It could tap into the gas supply coming up for the refer and would terminate in a quick disconnect fitting (possibly with a shut off valve for double safety). You can get quick disconnect fittings for the hose going to the Wave.

Also keep in mind that these are radiant heaters...they don't directly warm the air like many electric heaters or the TM's furnace do. Rather they warm the surface of whatever they're aimed at...you or perhaps the front wall of the TM

Robin and Bill,

You're right, everyday I am one step closer to buying the panels. I will, however, wait for a trip report from Robin. It should still give me enough time before Christmas to include them in my letter to Santa ;D.

I'm just not capable of the install and am hoping that either I can find someone in the Rio Grande Valley or I can use them portable like Robin has intended.

Can't wait for the results. Be careful biting bullets, they can really damage the enamel on your teeth ;D.