Tub replacement/support

[Bill]

RockyMtnRay wrote

Sorry Bill, but as "Mr. Boondocker", I'll have to politely but strongly disagree with that "everyone" part. I would never even consider installing a hands free device in my TM for the simple reason that it greatly increases the amount of water needed for a shower.

Ah, Ray, I have not explained myself properly. In the TM, I always take a "Navy shower". This means that I hose myself down, and then stop the flow at the showerhead. With the flow stopped, I soap myself up - hair, body, and all (blush!). Then I turn on the flow again, and rinse everything. Finally, turn off the water at the faucets. Total water use is as small as I can make it.

Having the shower head on a hands-free mount doesn't imply that you let the water run continuously while you luxuriously soap up. You're right, that can't be done in a boondocking situation - if nothing else, you'll run out of hot water! But having the shower head on a hands-free mount does mean that you can turn the flow on and off with ease - you don't have to fumble with the hot and cold faucets and readjust the temperature whenever you turn it on. That might even save water, who knows?

Bill

[RockyMtnRay]

Hal...you're clearly not doing this right.

Bill...you're doing it right but still using too much water.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR ABSOLUTE MINIMUM WATER USE SHOWER:

Step 1. With a wash cloth positioned under the shower head wand, quickly adjust hot/cold valves until the temperature is tolerable and just enough water flows to barely spray from the shower head. The water pump should be very slowly pulsing...if it is running continuously you have the valves way too far open. Water used a this point: under a pint but not completely wasted as the wet cloth will be used later.

Step 2. Barely wet skin and hair by moving shower head wand quickly over the entire body with the shower head within two inches of each skin surface. Water usage for this step: about 1 quart.

Step 3. IMMEDIATELY TURN OFF THE FLOW AT THE SHOWER HEAD AND PLACE THE WAND IN THE HOLDER AT THE VALVE. By turning off the flow at the shower head, absolutely no readjustment of the temperature will be needed later. Putting the wand back into the receptacle at the valves insures it will be easily found again...there will be no fumbling and no trying to hold both wand and soapy cloth. Since the flow has been stopped, there's no spray of wasted water while the wand is in its receptacle.

Step 4. Apply shampoo to hair. Use as little as possible. Water usage while applying shampoo: NONE!

Step 5. Apply a gel body wash...not soap...to the wash cloth that was wetted in step 1. Body wash gels make more suds than bar soap, one application is enough for anyone's body...there is no need to resoap the cloth, and the suds wash off more easily. Plus there is no icky wet bar of soap afterwards...the body wash bottle readily goes back in the bathroom cabinet. Apply suds to entire body. Water usage while sudsing: NONE!

Step 6. Put wash cloth in bathroom sink...it's already soapy so use it later for hand washing.

Step 7. Grab wand from its easily found position in the valve mounted receptacle and turn on the flow with valve in the shower head. DO NOT WASTE TIME OR WATER BY MESSING WITH THE MAIN VALVES. Quickly move wand over hair and body with shower head within inches of skin/hair surface. Because the spray is being applied so closely to the skin, it's extremely efficient in washing off the suds. Total time to rinse off the entire body: 10 to 20 seconds. Total water used in this step: 1 to 2 quarts.

Step 8. Quickly turn off the main valves of the shower. Total water usage for all steps: under a gallon. Total time for shower: 90 seconds.

Summary:

• The key to rinsing efficiency is to use the wand to apply the water within an inch or two of the skin surface of each body part. This is far more efficient than allowing it to simply cascade down from an overhead spray.
  
  
• Yes, it's very difficult and terribly wasteful of water to try to simultaneously wash and hold the shower head. So, turn off the flow at the shower head and put it in the receptacle provided at the valve. Don't try to do two things at the same time. Sudsing and rinsing are two very separate steps.
  
  
• Yes, a great deal of water will be wasted if you turn off the flow at the valves between steps and then have to dink with the valves to get the flow and temperature correct again. Turning off the flow at the shower head precludes this.
  
  
• Yes, if you drop the shower head on the tub floor, it's hard to find. So don't drop it on the floor...there's a handy and easy to find receptacle already provided. Use it every time you need to put down the shower head.
  
  
• If you are properly following these steps, there's absolutely no need to install yet another shower head holder when the one at the valves will work perfectly for this admittedly very rigidly disciplined approach to showering.

[G-V_Driver]

Ray,

I'm glad Dr.Spock didn't go into that much detail or our kids would never have gotten their first bath

But now that the can of worms is open, I've wondered about the viability of an in-line foot switch (pedal) for the shower. Procedure would work as follows:

1. Hang the shower head wherever it works best. That probably won't be the same place for six-three-me and and "old shorty" (DW). I usually want my hair wet; she doesn't. Bend a coathanger to make a shower-head hanger if necessary. No calls to NASA should be necessary for that project. Any fourth-grader could fabricate one in a craft class in 15 minutes.

2. With foot pedal depressed and handle valve open, turn the faucets to adjust pressure and temperature. Catch it in the washcloth or let it go. If a cup of water makes or breaks your camping trip you're doing something wrong.

3. Apply pressure to the pedal when you want the water on, release when you don't. The principle seems to work well for dentists and sewing machine users, so I figure it shouldn't be too hard for the average TM bather. Besides that, my shower head is so touchy that every time I grab it for some meaningful purpose (usually with hands covered with soap or shampoo as an additional handicap to my normal clumsiness) I inadvertently turn the water off. Particulary frustrating when attempting to wash or rinse places where shower head cannot be seen. Can the knob tension be adjusted? I never think about it until I'm in the shower and my memory span is so short I forget about it as soon as I get out. Maybe the euphoric feeling of being clean and fresh simply erases any thoughts about working on the apparatus.

4. When finished, turn the water faucets off and use the remaining pressure in the hose to squirt the cat or wife or whatever is in range. It keeps them alert and serves to remind them of who's boss.

[B_and_D]

ROTFL!!

I should print out RockyMtnRay's shower instructions, laminate them and hang them in the TM shower for my teenage daughter!

[Bill]

Ray, you and I do it the same way - I guess I just don't explain it as well. The only difference between us is that I hang the showerhead on the hands-free shower holder (which also holds the shampoo and body wash, making all three easy to find without fumbling) rather than the receptacle at the valve. I still remove it from the bracket for the soaping/unsoaping operation.

I will admit, though, that in a campground with hookups, I am a bit more lesiurely - but only a bit. Even with unlimited water, six gallons of heated water doesn't go far when it has to serve both my wife and myself.

At the bottom line, water conservation is important when you're boondocking, and nothing - not even a shower - has to use much if you're really careful.

Bill

[RockyMtnRay]

I was NOT in a good mood yesterday so I probably got just a teensy bit carried away with the details of how to minimize water while boondocking. Hopefully it was so detailed the impact was laughter and not anger.

But if I insulted anyone, I do apologize....OTOH, above and beyond teenage daughters (or worse, teenage sons), it does appear that lots of folks really don't grasp how to truly minimize water use. Particularly if they've never or seldomly really had to. I am completely convinced that full hookups are the work of the devil.

Anyhew, replies:

B&D: Laminate away....it might help.

Wayne: Yeah, a foot pedal does sound like a solution as I too have had the silly valve in the shower head rotate partly closed. I think a better shower head might be a simpler solution though...the last thing I want in that tiny tub is yet another thing on its floor.

Bill:

At the bottom line, water conservation is important when you're boondocking.

So true...to reduce waste water accumulation as well as to minimize fresh water usage. In my experience, while not always super easy its a heckuva lot easier to resupply the trailer with fresh water than it is to find a legal place or way to empty the grey water tank. It's probably the reverse for desert campers. I'm going to post a bunch of pics later today of the Brainard Lake campground...easily one of the most beautiful camping places in all of North America....but also one of the most challenging waste water wise as it's 25 miles of tortuously twisting roads (and a 5000 foot elevation descent) to the closest dump station.

[G-V_Driver]

Ray,

Your stuff is usually so good that I'm sure everybody on this site is more than willing to cut you a little slack if you have a bad day. And it was good advice, even if a bit fervent in rendition.

As a devout practitioner of the 11th commandment ("taketh not thine ownself too seriously" sometimes paraphrased as "believeth not thine own BS") I had a great time with it and amused myself immensely. A day later I'm still chortling at my own work. Even "old grimlips" (aka "old shorty") was somewhat amused.

Hope your normal good spirits have resurfaced.

[Bill]

Ray -

I can't imagine anyone was upset. And your mention of

beyond teenage daughters (or worse, teenage sons) ...

put me in mind of a sort of sad incident involving our then-teenage son. We had gone to a campground in Vermont that wasn't too far from him in college. We hadn't seen him in 2-3 months, and he really wanted to spend some time with us (he's a good kid), so he came to our TM Saturday evening as planned. When he arrived, he looked AWFUL - chills, sweating, nausea. We immediately cancelled the evening's plans, got him some soup and crackers, and wrapped him in a blanket in the easy chair. As he got colder, he said what he really needed was a hot shower. I explained to him the limited amount of hot water, and the procedure for a Navy shower. He nodded - but in his condition, it didn't sink in. A few minutes later, I heard him yell "This is great, Dad!" - and 30 seconds later a screech of indignation as the hot water ran out. Talk about grumbling as he came out! He rewrapped himself in the blanket, fell asleep in the chair, and felt better in the morning. Then, after breakfast, he asked casually, "Tell me again about the hot water, Dad?"

For anyone with my son's tendencies, go back and re-read Ray's post - and then review my son's story. THIS COULD BE YOU!

Bill

[G-V_Driver]

We haven't used the shower a lot. If we stayed in a campground with nice showers, and they were close, it was sometimes easier to schlep over to them. That was especially true for (DW's) big hair-wash events. My big hair events are a thing of the past, in spite of my constant admonitions to my barber to "cut it thicker on top."

I have, however, become semi-adroit (for a fat guy) at using the TM shower, and now prefer using it to those used by the raggedy-*** public. DW concurs. Having made that decision, one of the features that I find most enjoyable is the semi-sauna effect that occurs when you squirt a little hot water inside that tiny enclosed area. It is very comfortable and soothing, and consumes very little water. Probably even less if I left the plug in the tub.

I don't suppose it is enough of a benefit that the factory would consider using it as a selling point, but it would be fun to write the brochure.

[fcatwo]

Just to show how diverse we are as a group: DW and I have never used the shower in our 2002-2619. We've even taken the curtain out, put a bar across the top and use it as a drying area for damp towels and whatever sweaty biking/jogging/hiking clothes we create. There are two reasons for this. One is that we travel mostly during the cooler months and don't want to create the extra moisture inside the TM. If there was a way to put a HD powered vent directly overhead we would probably use the shower- at least part of the time. The second is that we almost always stay in public or commercial RVparks/campgrounds that have showers and although I never used campground showers during our 5th wheel days, we use them exclusively with the TM. I have to admit that I was appalled back then to see RV owners turning their showers into extra closets and using the park showers. Now I find myself doing the same thing.

Another weird thing about us is that we opt for hookups if available and almost never have water in our TM fresh water tank. We start each trip with four 1-gallon jugs of filtered water for cooking and drinking and refill them as necessary along the way. Some consider such soft living as blasphemous so I'll add in our defense that we also usually spend at least one week per year on self-contained bicycle camping trips. We enjoy both. YMMV

Frank