Appliance electrical weirdness

[DanSTL]

Just left TM factory Friday evening and decided last minute to have them replace the water heater. Great company and people as many here know!

Unfortunately first attempt to install water heater was unsuccessful (lots of new trainees) but after it was pulled out and reinstalled by experienced technicians, thought it was good to go.

Only drove 164 miles Friday night and now propane doesn’t even attempt to turn on (no indicator light or flame) and fridge no longer works on propane either (is the fridge propane connection dependent on a good water heater propane connection?).

No idea how to install or connect but guessing this is an easy fix for someone who knows a thing or two? Did something maybe come loose on dirt roads (drove slowly)?

Working with TM on how to make right as I’m sure there is some warranty on work (other than driving back there) but if I have to foot another bill trying to get a sense for root cause. Thanks !

[Bill]

Dan -

Does propane reach the stove? Do the burners light?

Bill

[DanSTL]

Yes stove works fine. Going to recheck furnace shortly and also fridge no longer working on propane either

[rickst29]

As I was writing this, Bill described your first step perfectly: Verify good pressure from the running tank and through the flex gas supply tube by running the stove or furnace first.

Underneath the refrigerator, a "T" shaped 3- way connector is used to provide propane gas (at pressure) up and into the fridge burner on the vertical leg, while the horizontal path connects between the source pipe (from the front 4-way connector) into another destination segment leading a couple of feet further towards the back of the TM. It then goes up and into the water heater gas valve.

These two connectors are not likely points of failure, and I do not recommend that you disassemble either one. (IIRC, at least is built using flared pipe ends rather than O-rings, and you need s special tool to cut off and re-flare pipe ends if you take it apart. When I replaced my 'under-the-fridge' 3-way "T" with a 2-way straight through connector of the same design, to eliminate the fridge supply line, I had to acquire the tool in order to use a connector of the same type.)

Your gas supply pressure problem is more likely caused by a problem at a regulator valve (on a tank), or at the rotating tank selector switch, or along the flex supply line leading from the selector switch into the input leg of the 4-way distribution connector at the from of the TM.

In my 2619 model, that 4-way distribution connector provides gas pressure into 2 separate copper lines which route along the curb side, those go directly into the cabin heater and the stove as separate lines.

If your cabin heater works AND your stove works, then the problem is "downstream" of the 4-way connector, either along the shared "street side" pipe or at the later 3-way T" connector. Inspect the pipe for damage, either being crushed or pierced.

If you have a compatible gas pressure gauge, you can also test for pressure at the gas valves of the appliances. If not, you should follow the problem determination charts for the two appliances.
- - -
Are you sure that the tank valve is re-opened after ssetting up, and that the tank selector switch points to the opened and still partly filled tank?

[Bill]

One other possibility, unlikely, but easy to try. Is your bathroom wall stood up? In some TMs, power to the water heater igniter is wired through the switch that gets depressed when you stand up the shower's back wall.

Bill

[DanSTL]

Okay great news but still some questions. Turned on stove, then furnace, then tried water heater and I got a flame! Was on a roll so tried the fridge and no luck again, until I turned the Refrigerator Fan switch on. Once I did that it lit right up too! (didn’t know refrigerator fan was required to start fridge on propane).

Still have a couple of questions/issues:

1. Indicator light on service panel still doesn’t come on at all. Instead I now hear a loud persistent buzzing sound followed by clicking right before propane lights. Buzzing sound continues after lit.

-Pulled all fuses shown here and all were good

-Since it does also heat on electric doesn’t that mean 120v is good?

2. Noticeable propane odor inside. I have a new Kiddie Co/Propane detector and it never went off but seems a little concerning I can smell propane.

3. Saturday morning propane stove was on, lights were engaged (bathroom wall was up) and water heater switch did nothing (no buzz, no click, no indicator light)

- wasn’t able to reproduce this today, it always lit but seems so strange

Thanks again for the assist

[Bill]

Originally Posted by DanSTL

Turned on stove, then furnace, then tried water heater and I got a flame!

Good news, but we till need to know why.

Was on a roll so tried the fridge and no luck again, until I turned the Refrigerator Fan switch on. Once I did that it lit right up too! (didn’t know refrigerator fan was required to start fridge on propane).

It is not related or required.

Indicator light on service panel still doesn’t come on at all. Instead I now hear a loud persistent buzzing sound followed by clicking right before propane lights. Buzzing sound continues after lit.

Presuming we are talking about the water heater now, the "click" is the snap of the electric spark in the automatic lighter. I have no idea what the buzzing is.

Pulled all fuses shown here and all were good

Good elimination step.

Since it does also heat on electric doesn’t that mean 120v is good?

Yes, but I'm not sure how that is relevant.

Noticeable propane odor inside. I have a new Kiddie Co/Propane detector and it never went off but seems a little concerning I can smell propane.

Uh oh, not good. You need to trace this down. Where is the detector mounted? Near the floor or near the ceiling? Is it battery-operated or wired in? Is it a smoke detector or a propane detector? Is it possible that you turned on a stove burner but didn't light it for several seconds? This will result in a propane odor in the room. Did the propane odor go away by itself? How long did it last?

Saturday morning propane stove was on, lights were engaged (bathroom wall was up) and water heater switch did nothing (no buzz, no click, no indicator light)

Try turning a few other things on and off, and see if that changes the situation.

wasn’t able to reproduce this today, it always lit but seems so strange

None of this is making much sense. I'm beginning to think that a PO did some rewiring behind the panel. For example, interlocking the refrig power with the refrig fan. Adding (incorrectly) a buzzer to the water heater pilot light circuit. With the buzzing, can you look behind the sink apron and find what is making the buzz? Is it coming from something behind the panel, or from the water heater itself? Did the PO mount an actual buzzer back there for some reason?

Finally, was any of this weirdness evident before you had the water heater replaced by the inexperienced crew at the factory?

Bill

[commodor47]

DanSTL

I noticed one of the blade fuses in your thumbnail may not be properly seated. Also, one of the 20 amp circuit breakers appears to be either tripped or in the off position. Might either be the cause of your issue(s)?
Dick

[DanSTL]

Tried turning things on and off and made some progress

1. Propane leak concern eliminated- just ran water heater and no smells. CO/Propane detector is battery powered and ceiling mounted near converter but seems likely previously reported odor was from a stove burner and even before didn’t last long .

2. Water heater trigger point? - propane flame ran well for about 10-15 min then shut off. Is this normal once water reaches a certain temperature? If so, this may also be why it did nothing Saturday morning as I had the electric water heater switch “on” overnight and may have already been too hot for flame to operate. Tonight after flame turned off I toggled the interior water heater switch off/on again but still wouldn’t even try to light flame (no buzzing sound) so assuming there’s a thermostat that stops it at a certain heat

3. Fridge on propane worked again but only after switching on refrigerator fan just prior to 4th attempt. Unfortunately now I’m facing the dreaded “won’t stay green issue” with dual on fridge door moving in/out of green , which I hadn’t seen before. On good news, I switched “off” refrigerator fan button and fridge lit on propane again (though it wouldn’t stay in green), which tells me it’s not wired to the fan.


4. Water heater noise I described as a buzz is not by design of PO (wasn’t there with previous water heater). It’s more like the constant buzz noise when an airplane is in flight and doesn’t go away but decreases very slightly from initial sound. Also noise begins immediately when switch is turned on, even before flame lights (and before clicks). Buzz not heard once water heater shut off, nor heard after I toggled interior water heater switch off/on in attempt to relight.

5. Fuse that looks seated at angle was checked and connected fine. Also the breaker did seem off but when I pushed back it would move right over so figured that’s the normal position?

6. TM factory suggested I check for a loose wire ( 3 wires on top of the water heater underneath the sink, Black, Green, and Pink that make should beconnected with a wing nut). Based on pic think they are

[Bill]

1. CO and propane are both heavier than air, so the detectors should be mounted near the floor. Smoke rises, so a smoke detector should be mounted on the ceiling. TM puts a hard-wired (not battery) CO/propane detector near the floor just to the left of the kitchen sink, and a battery-powered smoke detector on the ceiling up front.

2. You are right about water already hot. The mfr says it is OK to run both heaters (gas and electric) at the same time to improve recovery time if you want. But neither will run if the water is already hot.

4. If you do a web search, you will find a lot of posts about water heaters making strange noises. There appear to be many causes, such as air in the tank, expansion of the pipes or the tank as temperature goes up, and so forth. They appear to to be annoying more than dangerous, and can usually be eliminated reasonably easily.

5. If a breaker is tripped (middle position), you cannot push it directly the ON. You must first push it to OFF, then back to ON.

Bill