This doesn't look good....sagging floor?

[DanSTL]

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

I ended up ordering some of those metal triangle brackets from the factory (they call them outriggers), and they apparently will have a flange on them that will abut the frame such that they can be bolted (vs. welded) to the frame. I am expecting to receive them later this week, but won't be able to put them on till mid-October. I still haven't decided what, if anything, I'm going to put between the outriggers and the floor -- maybe a thick plate?

Dave

Thanks for sharing , lots of questions here on how to move forward but sounds like there may be a feasible solution. If you’ve decided what size/type of bolts you’ll use and whether you’ll mount from the exterior or some other way, definitely interested as I’m new to RVs and TMs

[ShrimpBurrito]

I'm not sure -- I want to see what size holes, if any, might already be in the outriggers. I'm thinking something along the lines of 3/8".

The other question is whether to drive the bolts through the entire beam of the trailer and put a nut on them, which would obviously require drilling the second hole straight across from the first one (which might be tricky), or just drill a hole in just one side of the beam and then either tap threads into it for a bolt with machine threads or just use a sheet metal (or self-tapping) screw. The latter is what is used to attach the stabilizing jacks, and they were plenty tight when I replaced the jacks on my other TM, so I'm leaning in that direction.

And yes, Wayne, I was thinking something like 1/4" aluminum too....just need to take some measurements to see how big I can make it before running into stuff (like the fresh water and sewer drain valves).

Dave

[Shane826]

I’d go all the way through. The frame metal isn’t all that thick so there won’t be much for threads.

[DanSTL]

Can you post a pic when you get them? I’m trying to visualize what they are and where they go and which part of the frame you would mount them to? I only see the thin wall separated from wood floor and no frame for about 12 inches in from the separation point.

If this a somewhat common problem I might try to have a dealer do the repair but appreciate the info here in the interim.

[rickst29]

The "lifting helper" gas struts lower supports on my own TM are bolted into the floor with strong segments of angle bar. See this photo: https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...5&d=1688756048

It is possible to stabilize and reconnect the floor to wall corner angle by turning my bar upside down. The vertical "outside face" of the bar, insteasd of hanging down, would be installed with that face going up against the side wall exterior.

Mine is too thick to flip upside down, the 1/4" steel and into-the wall bolts (combined) would stick out too far and make a mess of the bag seal during lower of the rear shell. But thinner metal might work OK, you don't need all the strength of my add-on part.

[ShrimpBurrito]

Originally Posted by Shane826

I’d go all the way through. The frame metal isn’t all that thick so there won’t be much for threads.

I agree there's not alot of room for threads, but the self-tapping bolts (or whatever they were, they looked a bit different than machine bolts) that hold up each of the stabilizing jacks on my unit anyway remained darn tight after 20+ years and 10's of thousands of miles of tensile forces. The forces on these bolts would be more shear, and so therefore presumably less demanding on the threads.

Originally Posted by DanSTL

Can you post a pic when you get them? I’m trying to visualize what they are and where they go and which part of the frame you would mount them to? I only see the thin wall separated from wood floor and no frame for about 12 inches in from the separation point.

If this a somewhat common problem I might try to have a dealer do the repair but appreciate the info here in the interim.

Pictures attached. They are the same thing as what's already on the camper in a few places -- now there will be more. Take a look under yours, and you'll see a few, including right behind the driver-side wheel. The small holes are for the bolts to attach it to the frame. The large holes are just for things like wires, propane lines, etc. to pass through under the trailer.

Originally Posted by rickst29

The "lifting helper" gas struts lower supports on my own TM are bolted into the floor with strong segments of angle bar. See this photo: https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...5&d=1688756048

It is possible to stabilize and reconnect the floor to wall corner angle by turning my bar upside down. The vertical "outside face" of the bar, insteasd of hanging down, would be installed with that face going up against the side wall exterior.

Mine is too thick to flip upside down, the 1/4" steel and into-the wall bolts (combined) would stick out too far and make a mess of the bag seal during lower of the rear shell. But thinner metal might work OK, you don't need all the strength of my add-on part.

I have never seen anything like that -- what is that? Have you posted a separate thread about it?

Thanks for all the great ideas, folks!

Dave

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

Pictures attached. They are the same thing as what's already on the camper in a few places -- now there will be more. Take a look under yours, and you'll see a few, including right behind the driver-side wheel. The small holes are for the bolts to attach it to the frame. The large holes are just for things like wires, propane lines, etc. to pass through under the trailer.



I have never seen anything like that -- what is that? Have you posted a separate thread about it?

Thanks for all the great ideas, folks!

Dave

Those frame extensions are quite common on wider flatbed and cargo trailers also. They're called "outriggers"

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

I have never seen anything like that -- what is that? Have you posted a separate thread about it?
Dave

That image shows an angle bar 'floor mounting plate', with an attached 'strut lower mount bar' also attached. They are the larger and more time-consuming installed parts from my "assisting gas strut" assemblies, which provide additional shell lifting power to my weakened torsion bars. (my torsion bars are adjusted for maximum twist power using the screws, and the bar ends have hit the limits of the enclosing box).

With regard to the sagging floor issue in this Thread, only the "floor mounting pate" is relevant. That assembly is connected through the edge of the floor, up into the center of the bottom wall assembly. It holds the lower mount really tight against the both the sidewall and the floor edge, in spite of high forces (from the gas struts) trying to push the entire end mount assembly down from with floor.

(It also resists front-back forces presented at the strut end, which are very large in lowered position, but decrease as the lift arm and attached strut are moved into vertical "open" position.)

I see that it is hard to determine that Thread, "Gas Struts",from only the image link. The whole Thread is long and complex, with most of my parts and assembl;y stuff starting here): https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...9&postcount=56

I later found that the additional "inside" screws (in stainless, inwards from the row of deck screws) were not needed to hold these L-bars firm. It was plenty strong with just the bunch of deckmate screws (8-10 screws, yellow/brown).
- - -
applied to this issue, the downwards L-bar side could be skipped (with just the flat plate still resisting bends pretty well). The side "lower wall" will still be held down to the floor by all the screws.

Or, a thinner L-bar could reach upwards along the outside of wall, allowing fior the addition of horizontal screws as wellt - but that would have issues of interfering with shell bag seal descent, if it stuck out too far.

Here's a shot of one L-bar, with the "inner" holes all ignored.

[DanSTL]

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

I agree there's not alot of room for threads, but the self-tapping bolts (or whatever they were, they looked a bit different than machine bolts) that hold up each of the stabilizing jacks on my unit anyway remained darn tight after 20+ years and 10's of thousands of miles of tensile forces. The forces on these bolts would be more shear, and so therefore presumably less demanding on the threads.



Pictures attached. They are the same thing as what's already on the camper in a few places -- now there will be more. Take a look under yours, and you'll see a few, including right behind the driver-side wheel. The small holes are for the bolts to attach it to the frame. The large holes are just for things like wires, propane lines, etc. to pass through under the trailer.



I have never seen anything like that -- what is that? Have you posted a separate thread about it?

Thanks for all the great ideas, folks!

Dave

Thanks for sharing Dave, they were staring me in the face! I will look to add several of those but also thinking of inserting bolts from the lower side wall and into the floor to help secure the floor.

1. Anyone else here thinking bolts through lower side wall too or have any other ideas on the lower side wall?

I know side wall is very thin, but floor was secured via staples before and unsure outriggers alone will do it.
——————

Also I noticed a few things on my TM below (with pics), need help identifying if these are standard TM or not, anyone know?

2. Straight bracket (not outrigger) running near drains and over a cutout on floor.

3. Cutout outline under straight bracket faint but visible.

4. Box housing providing access to bathtub drain

-These are all towards rear of the cutout that appears to have been added to vent the cassette toilet.

Appreciate insights as I’m still searching for a root cause of sag and trying to understand the TM.

I’m set to visit factory late October and will share what we come up with (planning to include outriggers).

Thanks again and good luck Dave !

[rickst29]

First, let me correct some wrong terminology in your last post (please edit and fix it): Your issues are in the floor and the lower curb side wall of the non-moving lower box structure, not the shells. Replace your references to "shell" with "lower side wall", to avoid confusing other readers.

This bolted-to-the-frame outer wall support L-bar is not OEM, it is a previous owner's fix attempt. It supports the sagging floor from the frame, all the way out the the lowewr wall attachment. But is is only 2" wide (at the most): The floor edge continues to sag in front of the supported area, and (even more) behind it.

That bolt (at the end) may not be long enough to reach up into the side wall itself - and even if it were, it is possibly to big (diameter) to leave any side wall wood structure for supporting threads within the wood edge.

You need a fix for the entire front-to-back length of the problem, not just a single point with 1 or 2 inches of width in the "support".