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Old 02-08-2005, 05:10 PM   #1
Ken Stach
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Default Towing with F150

I have a 2002 F150 Super Crew pickup with 5.4 liter engine (four wheel drive). Do I need a load leveler hitch for the TrailManor manor 2619 or can I get by with the existing hitch on the vehicle? Thanks for any input. Ken Stach
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Old 02-08-2005, 05:47 PM   #2
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There are lots of folks on here that will disagree with me but. . .

I tow with a 1500hd Chevy 4x4 and I don't use one. But then the back end of the truck does not go down any when I hook up. I think that is just something that changes from TV to TV. Hook it up if you have more than an inch of drop you might want one, if not, nope. Should you have two or more inches, yes get one.
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Old 02-08-2005, 07:32 PM   #3
B_and_D
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We have a 1500 Chevy 4x4 and just use a regular hitch, although it is Class 5. We didn't know what kind of a trailer we'd be towing when we put it on, and then found the TM's on the internet. The truck rear end drops a tad when hitched up, but we haven't had any problems towing the TM with it. We tow a 2720, but always try to load lightly. We put the heavy stuff in the truck bed and try not to drive with full H20 and waste tanks. This is mostly because of worries about blowouts, had one, don't want another one.
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Old 02-08-2005, 11:06 PM   #4
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I had a 1997 f-150, and now a 2004 f-150. Never had to use a weight dist hitch. The tongue weight is not heavy enough and the trailer is light enough to justify. They are extra safe, but I would not use one on a full size truck. Small trucks/suv's I would for sure.
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Old 02-08-2005, 11:32 PM   #5
rpcoombs
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I tow my beloved TM 2720SL with a Red (Red is faster!?) 2001 Ford F-150 Lightning using the standard Class 3 tow package hitch without any problems . I'm trying to get TrailManor to sponsor an attempt (I, having "retired" three times, now work for Chesapeake RV Solutions in Virginia - standard disclaimers apply) at the TM land speed record with my TV (385 supercharged horsepower with assorted modifications including nitrous oxide system --- 487 dyno'ed). Will let you know how I make out. Cheers, "Dick"
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Old 02-09-2005, 06:42 AM   #6
RockyMtnRay
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Default Need a WDH? Maybe Not. Very good idea? Definitely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Stach
I have a 2002 F150 Super Crew pickup with 5.4 liter engine (four wheel drive). Do I need a load leveler hitch for the TrailManor manor 2619 or can I get by with the existing hitch on the vehicle? Thanks for any input. Ken Stach
As has been explained here many times, the effects of a 500 lb tongue weight (approximate actual tongue weight of a 2619) are threefold: (1) the tongue weight is put on the rear suspension; (2) a portion of the tongue weight is taken off the front suspension through a teeter-totter action with the truck's rear axle acting as the fulcrum, and (3) the weight that comes off the front suspension is added to the rear suspension.

In and of itself, a 500 lb tongue weight on an F150's rear suspension is not a particularly large load.

The key issue is how much comes off the front suspension due to leverage and whether or not that amount is enough to cause braking/handling problems. This is determined by the ratio of wheelbase to rear overhang...being a supercrew style, your truck has a relatively long wheelbase of about 139 inches; typical rear overhang from axle to hitch ball is about 4 feet or 48 inches. Therefore the leverage of the tongue weight on the front is 48 divided by 139 times 500 or about 170 lbs. That's the amount the front steering and braking is reduced by and the amount that is added to the 500 (total of 670 lbs) going onto the rear suspension. Adding 670 lbs to the rear suspension is going to squat it by an inch or two...taking 170lbs off the front is going to raise it by a half inch or so and make it feel "floaty" or "bouncy"...and on low friction surfaces (wet, muddy, icy, loose sand on pavement) the 10% to 15% reduction in steering and front wheel braking could become a serious safety hazard.

Sooo, the bottom line is that with the relatively lightweight 2619, you probably can "get by" with a standard hitch...but you are going to suffer some loss of front wheel steering and braking and the ride will be less comfortable (a bit like riding in a boat at speed over choppy water).

But even if you can get by without one, a WDH or leveling hitch is a very good idea because it distributes a third of the tongue weigh to the rear axle and a third onto the front axle (and the remaining third on the trailer axle). Therefore instead of having 670 lbs added to the rear axle, only 160 lbs is added; instead of removing 170 lbs from the front axle, 160 lbs is added. The result is the truck squats only a little...and squats equally front and rear; you have about 500 lbs more available cargo load capacity in the truck bed; and the front end will feel very "planted" or "solid" with noticeably improved steering, braking, and ride quality.

I have a half ton extended cab truck with a 128 inch wheelbase, an empty weight of nearly 5000 lbs, and the forward weight bias of 4WD. My 2720SL TM is somewhat front heavy...tongue weight is about 650 lbs. I regularly tow on steep, sharply curving mountain roads where sand on the pavement in corners is a common occurence. Any loss in front wheel braking or steering capability could have deadly consequences. Accordingly, I always, repeat, always use a WDH when towing my trailer.

Editorial comment: To me the entire concept of "getting by" when it comes to safety isssues (and an unweighted front suspension is a safety issue) seems irresponsible and foolish, especially if the reason is to only save a few dollars and a few minutes of hookup time. After all, a $450 WDH is only about 1% of the total cost of a $25,000 truck and $20,000 trailer...a very small amount for significantly improved safety.
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The Trailer: 2002 TM Model 2720SL ( Mods: Solar Panels (170 Watts), Dual T-105 Batteries, Electric Tongue Jack, Side AC, Programmable Thermostat, Doran TP Monitor System)

The Tow Vehicle: 2003 Toyota Tundra V8 SR5 4X4 w/Tow Package (Towing & Performance Mods: JBA Headers, Gibson Muffler, 4.30 gears, Michelin LTX M/S Tires, Prodigy Brake Controller, Transmission Temperature Gauge)


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Old 02-09-2005, 07:13 AM   #7
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We tow our 3124KB with an F150 supercrew. For the first few trips we went without the WDH. And everything was fine. It made the back of the truck squat a little, but not too much. It handled well. If it had been just me I would have stopped there. But my wife had been reading this board and really wanted a WDH. So we got one and I have to admit it helped a little. As Ray said the ride is less "bouncey" on rough roads ( and we definitly have those here in Arkansas).

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Old 02-09-2005, 08:06 AM   #8
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Lightbulb Sticky Post or WDH article may be helpful.

RMR,
Your reply was very detailed, and informative. I think a sticky post on the WDH in the Towing section or an article under "Perspective Owners" area would be very helpful?
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Old 02-09-2005, 09:43 AM   #9
RockyMtnRay
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Default Good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleRockCamper
RMR,
Your reply was very detailed, and informative.
Thanks. My goal was to get the decision away from solely being a "can my truck handle the weight" opinion/emotional consideration and objectively show via a mathematical analysis that there are also braking and steering safety issues. It's those braking/steering issues that we should be thinking about as much, if not more, than whether the truck is "tough" or "strong" or "heavy duty" enough to "handle" the tongue weight. Furthermore, because the loss of braking/steering isn't huge (around 15% to 20% depending mostly on tow vehicle wheelbase), it usually doesn't manifest itself until you have to make an emergency maneuver or panic stop...and then you suddenly discover the reserve margin of control/braking is simply not there.

I have experienced that loss of front braking safety margin caused by tongue weight induced front unweighting myself. Two years ago I skidded partway into an intersection with the front wheels locked up because of this...fortunately traffic was light and there was no collision. At the time I was towing with a Jeep Cherokee...short (100 inch) wheelbase so the tongue weight unweighting effect on the front suspension was large...and it happened even though I was using a WDH. The problem was (1) the WDH spring bars were not strong enough and (2) the trailer was very heavily loaded at the beginning of a two week trip. The ironic part of this almost-accident was I'd already grasped these concepts and only 30 minutes before had stopped enroute at an RV dealer to buy heavier duty spring bars...with the intent of installing the heavier duty bars at my first campsite. After installing the heavier duty spring bars that very night, the handling, braking, and ride quality of the Cherokee for the rest of the trip were enormously improved. Good thing too...a day later I again had to make a fast, hard stop and this time the front tires really gripped the road with no skidding.

Quote:
I think a sticky post on the WDH in the Towing section or an article under "Perspective Owners" area would be very helpful?
Good idea. My fellow moderator "Bill" already wrote up a superb discussion of these same WDH issues which is to be found in the Everything You Wanted to Know forum. However, it's a sad but true fact of life that the newbies who are asking these questions seldomly go to those "How To" writeups but instead make a bee-line directly for this forum. So a sticky, no-nonsense writeup on why a WDH is important at the top of this forum may indeed be helpful (even if somewhat redundant to Bill's writeup). And I'll get one done within the next day or so. Then we only have to get the newbies to read it...a major challenge in and of itself since newbies seldomly read anything before posting their questions.
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I use my TM as a base camp for hiking, kayaking, mountain biking, and climbing Colorado's 14ers


The Trailer: 2002 TM Model 2720SL ( Mods: Solar Panels (170 Watts), Dual T-105 Batteries, Electric Tongue Jack, Side AC, Programmable Thermostat, Doran TP Monitor System)

The Tow Vehicle: 2003 Toyota Tundra V8 SR5 4X4 w/Tow Package (Towing & Performance Mods: JBA Headers, Gibson Muffler, 4.30 gears, Michelin LTX M/S Tires, Prodigy Brake Controller, Transmission Temperature Gauge)


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Old 02-09-2005, 10:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMtnRay
Good idea. My fellow moderator "Bill" already wrote up a superb discussion of these same WDH issues which is to be found in the Everything You Wanted to Know forum. However, it's a sad but true fact of life that the newbies who are asking these questions seldomly go to those "How To" writeups but instead make a bee-line directly for this forum. So a sticky, no-nonsense writeup on why a WDH is important at the top of this forum may indeed be helpful (even if somewhat redundant to Bill's writeup).
Sounds like a great idea, Ray. Go for it!

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