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Old 11-05-2010, 11:35 AM   #11
mtnguy
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Sooo...I chose an F150 crew cab with factory tow pkg. In addition, it is getting its air bags installed today. It has a 9200 pound tow rating, and I figure that my 3023 won't weigh over 5000 if I load everything I could think of in it.
Just wondering, why airbags ?? With a 700 lb. tongue weight trailer (non TM) with WDH, and the bed loaded, my truck still rides slightly high in back.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:58 PM   #12
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When I read the discussions about loads and weights and limits with Pilots and Highlanders and such, I just do not want to go there. Sounds too much like living right at the limit. Plus I didn't go to Loadmaster School.
When I read discussions about Sienna's and that sort of vehicle, I mentally cringe at the thought of major components letting go on mountain roads.
Yes, its big, 5100 empty weight. But if safety, comfort, and worry free loading matter, its worth it. Most DW's like safety and comfort, especially if there are kids/grandkids involved. A test drive at a local dealer's might open new possibilities. Just a thought.

My .02

Tom

Amen brother..
Good stuff Tom.
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:24 AM   #13
T and C
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Just wondering, why airbags ?? With a 700 lb. tongue weight trailer (non TM) with WDH, and the bed loaded, my truck still rides slightly high in back.
Mtnguy,

I asked the same question. Do I need the air bags or not?

First, I don't want to use a WDH. The one I have weighs more than I want to handle. The part that goes in the reciever feels like 60 pounds or so, maybe more. I am 69 with a tricky back. I don't want to push my back's limit either.

Second, I talked to Matt at Custom RV about it. He recommended the air bags. He said that although the truck can handle the 500# tongue weight out behind the axle, thousands of miles with that extra weight will cause the springs to deteriorate more rapidly. I do not have experience with towing heavy trailers. I've had truck campers before, but have only had tent trailers.

So, since I tend towards "better safe than sorry" in most things, I took his advice.

Tom
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Old 11-06-2010, 08:33 AM   #14
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Mtnguy,

I asked the same question. Do I need the air bags or not?

First, I don't want to use a WDH. The one I have weighs more than I want to handle. The part that goes in the reciever feels like 60 pounds or so, maybe more. I am 69 with a tricky back. I don't want to push my back's limit either.

Second, I talked to Matt at Custom RV about it. He recommended the air bags. He said that although the truck can handle the 500# tongue weight out behind the axle, thousands of miles with that extra weight will cause the springs to deteriorate more rapidly. I do not have experience with towing heavy trailers. I've had truck campers before, but have only had tent trailers.

So, since I tend towards "better safe than sorry" in most things, I took his advice.

Tom
I was just wondering about reasoning. I understand about the weight of the WDH......I hate lifting that puppy, although it stays on my truck most of the spring, summer, and fall.

Just beware of the limitations of your OEM hitch. Mine is rated at 500 lb. tongue weight (5000 lb. towing) when used in the weight carrying mode. That goes up to 990/9900 when using a WDH. My TM tongue weight was over 500 lbs. after adding a 2nd battery, so I would have been over the hitch rating without a WDH. The 3023 is listed as about 50 lbs. heavier on the tongue than my 2720.

When I did a weigh in before adding my second battery, to close to 500 lb. tongue weight added 700 lbs. to my rear axle, and took off 200 lbs. from my front axle. Adding airbags will get your headlites out of the trees, but will do nothing to get the weight distributed back to the front axle.
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:40 AM   #15
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I was just wondering about reasoning. I understand about the weight of the WDH......I hate lifting that puppy, although it stays on my truck most of the spring, summer, and fall.

Just beware of the limitations of your OEM hitch. Mine is rated at 500 lb. tongue weight (5000 lb. towing) when used in the weight carrying mode. That goes up to 990/9900 when using a WDH. My TM tongue weight was over 500 lbs. after adding a 2nd battery, so I would have been over the hitch rating without a WDH. The 3023 is listed as about 50 lbs. heavier on the tongue than my 2720.

When I did a weigh in before adding my second battery, to close to 500 lb. tongue weight added 700 lbs. to my rear axle, and took off 200 lbs. from my front axle. Adding airbags will get your headlites out of the trees, but will do nothing to get the weight distributed back to the front axle.
What is your wheelbase?
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:58 AM   #16
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I talked to Matt at Custom RV about it. He recommended the air bags. He said that although the truck can handle the 500# tongue weight out behind the axle, thousands of miles with that extra weight will cause the springs to deteriorate more rapidly...
This doesn't make sense. Air bags do not remove weight from the axle, but leave it in place. A WDH removes some of the weight, moving it to other axles. Matt is pretty knowledgable. Are you sure you understood him correctly?

Or did he mean "You can add air bags, but thousands of miles with the extra weight will harm the springs"?

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Old 11-06-2010, 03:36 PM   #17
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What is your wheelbase?
145". F150, super cab, 6.5' bed.
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:29 AM   #18
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This doesn't make sense. Air bags do not remove weight from the axle, but leave it in place. A WDH removes some of the weight, moving it to other axles. Matt is pretty knowledgable. Are you sure you understood him correctly?

Or did he mean "You can add air bags, but thousands of miles with the extra weight will harm the springs"?

Bill
Bill,

We were talking about the air bags preventing so much weight working the springs up and down. Matt feels that this harms their resiliance. The air bags support much of the weight the springs would have to bear. I am aware that they do not reduce axle weight.

On my older truck I frequently carried an overhead camper that weighed 1450 pounds. It put my weight right at gvwr with a tank of gas two passengers, and some stuff in the camper. w/o the air bags it would have sagged and rocked back and forth on the road. Not safe at all. So...I am used to having the bags in place.

Tom
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:19 AM   #19
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I was just wondering about reasoning. I understand about the weight of the WDH......I hate lifting that puppy, although it stays on my truck most of the spring, summer, and fall.

Just beware of the limitations of your OEM hitch. Mine is rated at 500 lb. tongue weight (5000 lb. towing) when used in the weight carrying mode. That goes up to 990/9900 when using a WDH. My TM tongue weight was over 500 lbs. after adding a 2nd battery, so I would have been over the hitch rating without a WDH. The 3023 is listed as about 50 lbs. heavier on the tongue than my 2720.

When I did a weigh in before adding my second battery, to close to 500 lb. tongue weight added 700 lbs. to my rear axle, and took off 200 lbs. from my front axle. Adding airbags will get your headlites out of the trees, but will do nothing to get the weight distributed back to the front axle.
Mtnguy,

I puzzled over your post for a while. Then I went to a Ford F150 site and read that many owners have replaced their class III hitches with class IV hitches at a cost of about $300.

Then I went to bed.

When I awakened this morning it was obvious to me that my subconcious mind had worked on the problem while I slept. The answer just surfaced in my thoughts as I awakened.

Look at those numbers again. We have been thinking that the 500/5000 limit had to do with the shear strength of the bolts that attach the hitch to the truck. BUT...look at that 990/9900 figure. If you load the hitch at 501 pounds it will fall off? But if you put a WDH on it will bear 990 pounds with no problem???

The answer is that both ideas are wrong. What Ford is regulating here, (to avoid liability), is SWAY. 500 and 990 are both exactly 10% of the weight limit they recommend. As we all know, the standard figure for the RV industry at large is that tongue weight should be limited to 10-15% of trailer weight.

But...TM's do not fit the average. Their axle configuration and low wind resistance both serve to limit sway beyond the normal limits.

So, I am not going to sweat the 500# limit too much.

Now if I throw an extra can of beans in the trailer and then the hitch falls off, I'm wrong.

Tom
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:27 AM   #20
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Mtnguy,

I puzzled over your post for a while. Then I went to a Ford F150 site and read that many owners have replaced their class III hitches with class IV hitches at a cost of about $300.

Then I went to bed.

When I awakened this morning it was obvious to me that my subconcious mind had worked on the problem while I slept. The answer just surfaced in my thoughts as I awakened.

Look at those numbers again. We have been thinking that the 500/5000 limit had to do with the shear strength of the bolts that attach the hitch to the truck. BUT...look at that 990/9900 figure. If you load the hitch at 501 pounds it will fall off? But if you put a WDH on it will bear 990 pounds with no problem???

The answer is that both ideas are wrong. What Ford is regulating here, (to avoid liability), is SWAY. 500 and 990 are both exactly 10% of the weight limit they recommend. As we all know, the standard figure for the RV industry at large is that tongue weight should be limited to 10-15% of trailer weight.

But...TM's do not fit the average. Their axle configuration and low wind resistance both serve to limit sway beyond the normal limits.

So, I am not going to sweat the 500# limit too much.

Now if I throw an extra can of beans in the trailer and then the hitch falls off, I'm wrong.

Tom
Tom,
A hitch receiver supports more tongue weight with a WDH than without (as does the tow vehicle). Sway has a lot to do with on the road stability, but probably not much to do with the tongue weight carrying capacity of a hitch receiver.

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Bill,

We were talking about the air bags preventing so much weight working the springs up and down. Matt feels that this harms their resiliance. The air bags support much of the weight the springs would have to bear. I am aware that they do not reduce axle weight.

On my older truck I frequently carried an overhead camper that weighed 1450 pounds. It put my weight right at gvwr with a tank of gas two passengers, and some stuff in the camper. w/o the air bags it would have sagged and rocked back and forth on the road. Not safe at all. So...I am used to having the bags in place.

Tom
Harm the springs? Bullfeathers. "Extra weight..."? Air bags make the suspension stiffer, but they don't change your rear axle weight or the weight rating your manufacturer provided. A stiffer suspension actually might give you additional rear axle weight carrying capacity. Or not, if there is a limiting factor that's something other than springs (like tires or the axles themselves). It's probably OK to have the airbags, given that they were made by someone who thought about these things. But you're potentially exceeding your rated rear axle capacity and you would be violating your manufacturer's warranty if you did that.

Ratings are guidelines, and I share your lack of concern about a can of beans. But a weight distributing hitch keeps the trailer tongue weight from unloading the front wheels, which air bags can't do. So, you're still reducing the weight on your front wheels where most of your braking and all of your steering happens.

Regardless, you've taken quite a leap from that lofty "erring on the side of caution" perch you were posting from earlier in this thread.
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