How do I know if I am running on shore power?

[Bailey'sMom]

Dave and Jerry

Thanks so much for the help. It's after 11 and I have to get up early for work. When I get home tomorrow I will continue this process. Any other suggestions you have for me will be appreciated. I will let you know what I find.

Amazing how much one can learn from this forum!

Thanks again.

Sara - you are already getting good advice, but I will offer a caution. If you reset all your home GFCIs and they trip again when you plug in the TM, then you have an electrical short in the TM somewhere. This can be hazardous and a trip to a dealer is warranted at that point.

Make sure the fridge, air conditioning and lights are shut off when you plug the trailer into your house. Then you can turn the fridge on if desired. You should not run your trailer air conditioning off a 15 amp house circuit, it can overload and trip the house circuit.

[ZekenSpider]

I edited my earlier post about GFCI's so go back to re-read the changes in it.

What you have found is good news. There are several things that can be wrong and the check list that clown9644 posted is a good place to look. It is probably nothing major.

Before you plug back into the TM, lets be sure the extension cord works OK by doing what I suggested in RED in my edited post and in what follows in this post.

It is clear from what you said earlier:.....

"Then I decided to try a different outlet on the front porch. One end of the extension cord was still plugged into the camper when I plugged the male end of extension cord into the house outlet on e front porch. It sparked as I plugged it in. Not a good sign, but it was just as I plugged it in. "

....that the sparking was probably OK and normal. I often see it when I plug my TM into shore power.....but it is very clear that there is a problem with a ground fault in the TM or the extension cord or the Adapter. It certainly could be the water heater electric element in the TM as clown9664 says. It could also be a miss-wired extension cord. This would not necessarily show up when you used your older camper. This is harder to check but if you do not already have one, buy a tester like the one in the attached photo at a local hardware store. They cost about $10.00. Plug this tester into the house first. If the lights are all good, plug the cord into the house, then plug the tester into the extension cord. If the lights on the tester are all good at this point, then the ground fault problem is in the TM (or maybe, but unlikely, the adapter pigtail).

Do you have an electrical schematic in the TM manual that you found in the TM? If not, there is one attached.

The next step will be to be sure everything is off in the TM as suggested by clown9964 and MisterP. Then we will try to power the TM up from shore power again.

Until later,

Jerry

[Brutus]

Sara, before you think you have a lemon on your hands, let me just say that this has happened to me as well.

I plugged an extension cord into the garage outlet (tied to a house GFCI circuit). Then plugged other end into my adapter. Got a spark when plugging the adapter into the 30 amp plug. Didn't think anything of it since a spark isn't uncommon. Went inside TM and my portable electric fan wasn't working.

Sooooo, I did the following steps:

1. Check GFCI, it's tripped.
2. Unplug from house, reset house GFCI. Good there.
3. Verify AC, fridge, water heater element are off. They were. (Left converter breaker on for the moment but hadn't forgotten about it.)
4. Plug in extension cord at house. Doesn't trip. Me thinks I'm done.
5. Go inside TM. Fan still doesn't work. Quick onset of panic, then realized the TM's GFCI had tripped as well. Reset that GFCI. And electrical is fine.

Have had it happen only a couple times. Best guess is I was "limp-wristing" plugging in the adapter (with other end already plugged into the house) to the TM 30 amp plug, and I somehow tripped it that way. Don't know for sure what caused it, but now my final attachment is the extension cord either into the house or the adapter (with a good sharp shove) and haven't had a problem (or spark) since.

KISS principle as they say...

Good luck tonight and hopefully it's this simple for you. If not, time to go into troubleshooting mode using the excellent advice above.

Pat

[ZekenSpider]

Sara:

I'll be away from my computer this afternoon when you are likely to begin more troubleshooting so attached are two more pieces of information that may be helpful. In addition, here is a brief discussion about the Circuit Breakers inside the TM Converter panel(in the hall outside the bath tub):

CB's are on the left, fuses are on the right.

There are five CB's, one 30A and four 20A. The 30A C shuts down all the 20A CB's.
Start with all five CB's off. Plug the shore power in and verify the house GFCI did not trip.

Looking at the schematic I posted yesterday, you can see what things the CB's send AC power to in the TM. Turn on the 30A CB only. If the 30A CB stays on and the GFCI does not trip at the house you will have 120 VAC into the TM but not to any equipment (including the DC portion of the converter).

The first 20A CB powers the microwave receptacle.

The second 20A CB powers the Air Conditioner but it will not run unless you turn on the switch in the ceiling(run only the Fan, do not put the switch into Cool or Heat).

The third 20A CB will be the most difficult because it powers up three separate things at once. Be sure the Refrig. switch is Off. Be sure the Water Heater outside electrical element switch is Off (see the attached Introduction to the TM Water Heater by someone named Jeff). With both of those items Off, the third thing, the converter DC power supply, will now run by itself giving you 12 VDC for lights, battery charging, 12 V Refrig. operation, water pump, toilet flush and all 12 VDC control circuits. If there is trouble with any of the 12 VDC stuff, the fuses on the RH side of the Converter Panel will control power to those items just like it did with battery only operation.

The fourth CB powers up all of the TM GFCI receptacles, inside and outside.

If everything is now working, the problem has to be the water heater electrical element. There are some very good discussions on the forum about that problem and how to repair it.

Hopefully all goes well.

Jerry

[Bailey'sMom]

Just wanted to let you guys know I am running very late at work, and won't be able to work on this til about 8 pm CST. Just so you aren't waiting and wondering....

Nothing like a surprise audit to mess up your night....

[Bailey'sMom]

Originally Posted by ZekenSpider

Sara:
If everything is now working, the problem has to be the water heater electrical element. There are some very good discussions on the forum about that problem and how to repair it.


Jerry

Okay, upon opening the water heater lo and behold I found the trailer keys! I also found the anode rod (see picture).

I took off the black cover to the heater element but how do I tell if it is fried or not?

Also, I assume that the black rocker switch should have the off pressed in towards the trailer, rocked up for off and rocked down for on? Is that correct? If so, then the switch was in the on position.

With the switch in the off position can I continue my testing? Will it tell me what I need to know?

[Bailey'sMom]

Originally Posted by clown9644

We need to do this "by the numbers"

1. Turn off everything in the TM, AC to off, lights off, etc. and open all circuit breakers.
2. Check the outlet you are going to plug into using a small appliance such as your cell phone charger, though I prefer a small lamp that I can see from a distance.
3. Plug the adapter cable in and then the TM cable.
4. Lamp still on at the outlet? Move into the TM, leave the lamp plugged into he house outlet so you can see it.
5. Re set the 30 amp breaker, you should hear a soft hum around the box and possibly a beep, indicating the charger portion is working. Check your lamp still on?
6. If you have a breaker that has a "Test" button on it, (that's a GFCI breaker) turn it on. This should activate the outlet in the bathroom and all of them outside. Use something to test them. Power on?
7. Yes do one breaker at a time and each time you turn one on, check your lamp at the house outlet. If it goes out the last circuit breaker has an issue.
My suspicions-- You should have a "Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter" operating that garage/outdoor outlet. If there is a fault it will open the circuit. This type breaker will immediately open the circuit if the hot water heater is on electric and you put power to it with no water in the tank. You may have blown the heater element. You can confirm if it is on by opening the vent outside and checking the hard to see switch, if it is on, you probably blew the heater element--don't panic its only a few dollars.
The other possibility is that the AC is on and your 15 or 20 AMP service is too small to operate it so it throws the breaker. I cannot run mine on any of my outside circuits, that's why our TM has 30 amp feed. Yes I know some folks can run ac on a 20 amp, I and possibly you, cannot.

Hope this helps, do let us know what you find. The solutions you find may help someone with a similar problem!

Okay,

AC was off
Water heater was on. (Not sure if the heater element is blown or not)
All lights off, opened circuits (figured out this meant turn them off) then tested one by one.

Lamp attached to shore powder outlet in garage stayed on through all of this testing.

Used my new handy dandy circuit tester and had the following ressults:
Turned on main 30 amp breaker. Did not hear any hum or noise of any kind. Tested Outlet by breaker box and one in kitchen -- didn't work. Didn't test any others.

Moved to next breaker and turned it on. Not sure if this is air. Conditioner or what. Didn't try to turn on air. Says optional microwave but I don't have that, but doesn't seem like enough room for another breaker. (See picture). Tried the same two TM outlets with my tester and nothing registered.

Moved to third breaker which appears to say refrig, water heater. Now this one made the humming noise you talked about, almost sounded like a fan. Then I tested the two outlets and they did not work.

Moved to fourth breaker and flipped it on. Tested the two outlets and now they work!! This one says GFI.

I am not Turning refrig on yet. Wil wait til after work tomorrow just in case someone responds to tell me not to try it. For some reason.

Thanks for all the help. The bright side is I am learning a LOT about my TM in a short time. Plus I still have one week before I leave o vacation for two weeks!

[Bill]

Sara -

A very productive day! You are right - you are learning a lot, which will serve you well in the future.

First, you have learned the difference between breakers (four of them, and they serve the 120 VAC side of the system) and fuses (many more, and they serve the 12 VDC side of the system). By the way, the fuses in your panel seem well labelled, and so do the breakers. Others facing the same problem may find that thsi is not universally true.

One of the breakers is supposed to serve the AC outlets in the TM, and nothing else, and you found that to be true when you popped on the fourth breaker. In your trailer (and mine), the GFI function is in one of the outlets, as shown in Jerry's post #8 above.

When you turned on the third breaker and heard a hum, the sound almost certainly came from the converter (battery charger). As shown on the label for this breaker, the converter is also powered from this breaker, along with the refrig and water heater. The hum is normal.

Neither the refrig nor the converter commonly cause the GFI in the house to turn off. However, as others have noted, a bad water heater element is a common cause of this phenomenon. So tomorrow, continue your saga, and let us know what you find. You've gotten a lot of good advice in this thread. As others have said - Sponsorship? Priceless!

Bill

[Brutus]

Sara, since you said the electric water heater switch was on, it's reasonable to assume that someone who didn't know T.M. from T.P. left it on (tank empty) and plugged into shore power.

IMHO (and with what Bill said), you can turn the fridge on electric at this point, see if anything trips (presumably not), check fridge temp in the morning, and deal with water heater tomorrow.

But I see Jerry is still on. Maybe he'll chime in.