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Old 12-31-2003, 04:18 PM   #1
CC_Turtle
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Default snow camping

Hi,

Bob and B&D had a few questions about our experience camping at Mammoth Lakes California...

We camped at the RV park that is located right before you hit town.. off of 203. while we were there we got 4 feet of snow in 4 days! amazing.. the TM held up very well considering that ice and snow covered the trailer!

during the summer this park has full hookups, but during the winter they only have electric hookups.. but they have a heated area with warm showers and bathrooms.

it got very cold.. high of 30's during the day... the furnace worked good for the front end of the TM.. but we had to also use a little extra one to heat up other areas.. and to also save some propane ;D

with the heaters we got lots of consendation with turned into ice on the inside of the trailer's windows - mostly in the back where the bed is located.

none of the pipes froze or our fresh water.. just lots of ice on everything else.. camping was great but leaving was very hard.. we had to defrost all of moving parts before we could lower the TM and get all 3 feet of snow off of our roof.. didn't realize that we would have to shovel 3 feet of snow off before closing! we had to buy a small ladder and a snow shovel.. hard work! after getting the snow off the top... the TM closed fine... we tried to cheat before loweringh the first side.. we didn't get all of the snow off.. and when we pushed it down,, it closed so hard it locked into place

the day we had to leave it was still snowing.. i was worried about pulling the TM in the snow,, but we had to go.. since another storm was on the way! after spending hours digging our selfs out we hooked up the TM. I have a Toyota Tacoma 4x4.. even with the 4x4 we put chains on my truck and just drove slow - 25mph down the mountain.. the truck did great.. we had great traction and no slipping.. after getting down past the snow level i could pry my fingers off the steering well

other things we learned:
1-fold up your steps.. very hard to get the ice and snow off of them
2-cover the hitch area.. so it doesn't get lots of ice on it
3-if it does start to snow... get the snow off the top everyday..don't let it build up!

the next day we opened up the TM and had to dry everything on the inside... considering the storm we were in.. the TM did great..

for our next time... during the very snowing seasons.. we plan on camping at Bishop - which is below the snow levels... in little snows the trailer is fine.. like big bear snow were they get inches at a time..but it was very hard getting all of that snow off of the roof before closing!

if anyone else has some experiences in snow.. would be great to read about them!

Happy New Years!
Teresa
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Old 12-31-2003, 10:32 PM   #2
Paul_Heuvelhorst
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Default Re:snow camping

If you plan to tow a trailer in snow country, where you will have to drive on roads that have snow or ice on them, it is recommended that you put chains on 1 axle (both wheels) of the trailer, too (most TM's only have 1 axle). When you apply the brakes of your tow vehicle the trailer brakes are also activated, and the trailer wheels are more likely to lock up on icy roads than the tow vehicle. With chains, at least the wheels will "bite" into the ice and give you some controlled braking. Chains on trailer wheels are also referred to as "drag chains" because the cause the trailer to "drag" when the brakes are applied.

Travel safely.
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Old 01-01-2004, 08:29 AM   #3
Bill
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Default Re:snow camping

I'm not sure that chains would fit, at least on my TM. There is very little clearance between the tire and the body of the trailer. However, it seems to me that there is one version of "chains" that is actually metal cables, maybe a quarter inch in diameter, that fit snugly against the tire tread. Perhaps this would work.

Bill
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Old 01-01-2004, 08:56 AM   #4
G-V_Driver
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Default Re:snow camping

I have a request.

I will post my picture and the license plate numbers for my trailer and tow vehicle on this site. If you happen to see them and/or me on the road on any day there is any snow on the road, or that you think there is even a remote possibility for snow, or if it has snowed recently, please notify the nearest law enforcement agency immediately.

You (and they) can be sure that it is either a theft (if I'm not driving) or a hijacking (if I am driving) and you will no doubt be in line for a significant reward for helping apprehend the desparado respsonsible for the crime

Happy new year to all !
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Old 01-01-2004, 11:37 AM   #5
Bill
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Default Re:snow camping

Teresa - You did a lot better with your first snow-camp than I did with mine. We were caught by a surprise blizzard in Amish country, and completely unprepared mentally for what we would experience. Funny now - not so funny then.

Quote:
It got very cold.. high of 30's during the day... the furnace worked good for the front end of the TM.. but we had to also use a little extra one to heat up other areas.. and to also save some propane.
Yup, an electric heater is a great thing for the back of the TM. We didn't happen to have one (but you bet we do now!) We did discover that if you close the privacy curtain, the back bed area will get REALLY cold, but if you leave it open, it is at least bearable.

Quote:
With the heaters we got lots of consendation with turned into ice on the inside of the trailer's windows - mostly in the back where the bed is located.
The condensation isn't from the heaters. It is actually from people breathing. And from cooking, I suppose. The electric heaters don't produce any water, and although the propane furnace produces a lot of water vapor, it is vented outside, so the water doesn't get into the TM. Of course, if you used a non-vented propane catalytic heater inside, you get a lot of water vapor from it. Anyway, the answer is to crack a vent or open a window just a bit, and allow some of the moisture-laden air to escape. You hate to let the warm air out, but the alternative is all the condensation/ice you describe.

Quote:
None of the pipes froze or our fresh water.
TM promises that no pipes or tanks will actually break, even if they do freeze. And in my experience, they are right, with one exception. If you have an outside shower, and if you didn't remove the shower head and drain the hose, then it froze and probably broke. Mine did. And you won't discover it until your first trip in warm weather, when it will spray water all over the inside of the little compartment, and cascade down the outside of the TM ... and inside on the bathroom floor. Check it before your next trip.
The fact that the water tank and the pump are in the heated interior is a great thing - it means that they don't freeze, and you continue to have running water. Of course, if you had had water or sewer hookups, those hoses would have frozen. When my sewer hose froze, I picked it up - who knows why - and it instantly broke like a dry twig. Never did THAT again!

Quote:
Camping was great but leaving was very hard.. we had to defrost all of moving parts before we could lower the TM and get all 3 feet of snow off of our roof..
The fact that snow built up is a testament to the insulation in the TM roof. I guess that's an advantage, right? At least until you have to shovel ...

Quote:
Other things we learned:
1-fold up your steps.. very hard to get the ice and snow off of them
2-cover the hitch area.. so it doesn't get lots of ice on it
3-if it does start to snow... get the snow off the top everyday..don't let it build up!
All good ideas. Thanks! And the one I would add, based on my own experience, is "Bring an electric hair dryer and an extension cord! You can thaw out anything if you have one."

Quote:
Considering the storm we were in.. the TM did great..
Yup! Isn't it nice? In my case it was the owner that didn't do so good.

Bill
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Old 01-01-2004, 03:42 PM   #6
Carol
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Default Re:snow camping

Hi!

We experienced some of the same issues that you did, but in September, in the Big Horn Mountains. We had wet, slushy snow, with lows in the lower 20's for most of the week we were there.

We did have lots of condensation with some ice on the windows and end parts of the shell (apparently not insulated as well as the rest) and wet pillows and bedding every morning. We wiped everything down with towels every morning and dried the bedding. The vapor must have been from us as we were using the proane heater supplemented by an electric heater for the back bed area.

I think that TrailManor should look into thermopane windows - it would help in the summer as well for reducing heat gain. The other area we found was very cold was the velcro seal areas - the insulation between the vinyl isn't the greatest!

We also had lots of cold air coming up behind the couch and found that the seal around the front storage compartment was not very tight. We stuffed something in there to help. That outside storage access is never used by us, so we are thinking of sealing it up with
insulation. There is also cold coming from the propane heater area under the couch in our 2720SL.

We also had condensation above the wheel wells inside the cupboards, especially under the stove area. This would probably be solved by doing the rounded wheel well modification, as it would add insulation. We did put a naugahyde cover on the air conditioner vent to block the cold air from coming in there and we put a magnetic cover on the bathroom vent.

We were thinking that insulated drapery material might help in the absence of thermopane windows. Anyone try this?

The campground water supply froze up the last few nights we were there. They fixed it the 1st couple of nights and then shut it down for the season. There was only electric at the campsites, so water was hauled in totes and the fresh water tank filled. We used a porta-potty at night and campground facilities druing the day to keep the black tank relatively empty. We dumped our gray water out in the woods via a long garden hose during the day, when temperatures were above freezing.

Here is a picture of our campsite at the Big Horns in Wyoming in Sept., 2003! http://carol.trailmanorowners.com/bighorns.jpg

A few weeks later in the Tetons where we had full hookups, we disconnected the water and sewer hoses at night when below freezing temperatures were expected overnight. It was definitely not as cold in the Tetons and we had also picked up an extra electric heater on our way. We plugged the extra one into a separate electric cord plugged into the grounded campsite 110 circuit breaker outlet so we wouldn't keep popping the internal circuit! We just had the extension cord put under the velcro flap near the refrigerator and had the extra heater on a camp table inside. The combo of the 2 heaters kept the propane heater pretty much off and we didn't have to listen to its loud fan.

We have decided that cold weather camping is too much of a challenge for us in the TrailManor, so we're going to stick to warmer weather camping from now on!

Carol
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Old 01-01-2004, 08:36 PM   #7
Windbreaker
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Default Re:snow camping

Ditto, GVdriver and Carol! My moma taught me to stay in doors in cold weather!
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Old 01-01-2004, 09:14 PM   #8
B_and_D
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Default Re:snow camping

CC Turtles - sounds like you sort of had fun, even though it was a challenge! Thanks for your input on the snow camping. Sounds like staying below the (heavy) snow level is best. It also sounds like your Toyota 4x4 did well on the snowy road.

Carol - what kind of an electrical cord arrangement did you have to connect the heaters outside via a separate electrical cord? Did the campground have the big round plug (30/50 amp)? If so, how did you plug the TM and another cord into that?

We camped in Columbia (gold country, CA) over Thanksgiving, and used an electric heater instead of the propane TM furnace. We used a clip-on electric fan to help circulate the air. The fan not only distributed the heat (the privacy curtains went away after the first night) but also helped the condensation problem. We also ran the fan in the rear bed area during the day to help dry things out.

Haven't got to the 110V outlet addition yet, but have done some other things to the TM, like put some hanging shelves inside the wardrobe cabinet, building a corner TV stand for the rear bed, etc. Still need to reinforce the dinette bed in the 2720 for where our son sleeps..seems like the newer models have a leg that folds down to support the bed (I think Larry showed us this when we visited him) but ours doesn't, and we improvised kind of a "luggage stand" type thing to go underneath, but there has got to be a better way.

We're going to venture out again camping soon, here in CA, but will try to stay out of the snow!
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Old 01-02-2004, 08:01 AM   #9
Carol
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Default Re:snow camping

[quote author=B_and_D link=board=1;threadid=1595;start=msg11248#msg11248 date=1073016875]

Carol - what kind of an electrical cord arrangement did you have to connect the heaters outside via a separate electrical cord? Did the campground have the big round plug (30/50 amp)? If so, how did you plug the TM and another cord into that?

We camped in Columbia (gold country, CA) over Thanksgiving, and used an electric heater instead of the propane TM furnace. We used a clip-on electric fan to help circulate the air. The fan not only distributed the heat (the privacy curtains went away after the first night) but also helped the condensation problem. We also ran the fan in the rear bed area during the day to help dry things out.

[/quote]

B_and_D - The post had both 30 amp round plug in and a standard 3 prong 110 15 amp plugin with a circuit breaker. If there is no circuit breaker, make sure you have a surge protector for the line. Since the TM has all internal 110 outlets on one circuit, the breaker will pop if too much stuff is running at one time, like 2 heaters or a heater and a microwave oven, etc. This method worked well for us.

We will have to look into the fan for the bed area, if we can figure out how to hook it up and secure it back there - a clip on sounds feasible. We were already running an oscillating fan in the main area and still had condensation there when we only were running 1 electric heater.

Thansk, Carol
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Old 01-02-2004, 09:47 AM   #10
CC_Turtle
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Default Re:snow camping

I saw another TM at our same campground and they had some sort of silver material in all of their windows... i wonder if that helped with the insulation? I was going to ask them.. but forgot... has anyone heard of this material?

we also had to roll a blanket and lay it around the edges of the back bed.. to keep it warmer... but after a few days we ended up sleeping on the couch.. because it was so much warmer up there.. we used the bed for storage which actually worked ok since we had so much winter clothes!

teresa
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