Alignment creep

[nwhouston]

I have posted before about the varied mis alignment trials with our '07 3124. None are so bad that we cannot tow and camp happily, but the issue seems to be continuing, as we notice more places where a seam, or an edge, or a corner or a bag seal that used to fit well is now "out".

I am posting again to see if anyone has another idea before I just yield to the reality of steady creep in the frame.

I recently had the chance to measure from the bottom of the tubular frame (not a gusset plate) to the ground. We were at a state park with a remarkably level site (not just flat, but "bubble in the lines" level). So I found that I have 15" just in front of the tires on both sides. 15" at the front before the frame angles to the tongue on the driver side and 14" on the passenger side. In the back near the bumper, 14" on both sides. When one stands at the front of our trailer, all set up, and looks at the front, one can clearly see about a 3/4" to maybe 1" drop across the top front (with the driver side higher).

I have tried the process of trying to jack the side walls up recommended by Golfing Debby to no avail. Even had the tech at Precision RV outside Dallas try with his hydraulic jack. Nada.

I have drilled out the hole for the pin on the door wing piece so it is a fraction lower and thus easier to seat when setting up, but I still have to lift the passenger rear with the scissor jack to the point it will seat, then back off.

A new observation on our recent April trip is that the toilet front wall no longer will push all the way onto the base (i.e. seat well against the wall of the trailer). Essentially the lower door piece has to be forced to latch to the upper piece. And the door, while it will open and close, is no longer the smooth operation of the past.

Further, the outer bag seal of the front top section, passenger side, no longer seats onto the top of the back top section when down and latched. I can see just a trace of water spray that has made it into the top of the trailer at that corner. Not a show stopper, but a progressive change.

I have crawled under the length and breadth of our frame, as did the tech at Precision RV, looking for cracks in the frame, or any indication of the issue. Nada.

We have checked the many vertical supports formed by the end of torsion arms rising up into the white metal vertical risers. All are the same (and no one has fooled with the them since we bought the trailer four years ago.) All the bolts are tight.

So again, if anyone has any further things to check, I am open to suggestions. The trailer works fine, it just is no longer square, and seems to be creeping a little more each trip.

I appreciate everyone's experience and observations.

Larry

[Bill]

A long shot, but ...

I have seen instances where the wall of the "box" is not parallel to (in the same plane as) the wall of the upper shell above it, especially near the entry door. Reasonably easy to check. With the TM set up, grab a known straight edge, maybe 6 or 7 feet long, stand it vertically on the ground, just ahead of the entry door. Adjust it so that it touches the wall of the upper shell over its entire top half. Now, without moving the straight edge, measure the gap between the straightedge and the wall of the "box", both near the bottom of the wall and the top of the box wall. These two measurements should be the same. (If you are OCD like me, you will turn the straightedge around and measure again.)

If these wall are not parallel, it is easy to adjust. Let us know.

I can make a sketch if this doesn't make sense.

Bill

[nwhouston]

Bill, thanks for the quick reply; I follow your measurement plan. I will need to pull the bobtail back to my drive to do these checks.

I can say without the measurements that the gap between the boxes varies quite a bit just by observation. The driver side fit is probably the closer to parallel of the two sides. But worth a true check.

Would you adjust the standoff nut on the top of the vertical arms to try and re align?

I wonder if the frames on these trailers remain truly level in one plane over the years of road travel. I may be chasing something that is more common than I know, as I only have my trailer as a reference.

I do use a WDH, which I don't really need but I use as a precaution. I have wondered if forcing the trailer frame to be rigid with my truck body is causing this problem.

Larry

[Bill]

Originally Posted by nwhouston

Bill, thanks for the quick reply; I follow your measurement plan.
I can say without the measurements that the gap between the boxes varies quite a bit just by observation. The driver side fit is probably the closer to parallel of the two sides. But worth a true check.

That sounds like it might account for seeing most of the creep on the curb side.

Would you adjust the standoff nut on the top of the vertical arms to try and re align?

Probably not, at least until you have exhausted all other possibilities. Take a look at these really old threads, and see if anything sounds familiar. Although they discuss door-alignment issues, they really discuss walls that are bowing out.
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...read.php?t=129
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...read.php?t=583

I wonder if the frames on these trailers remain truly level in one plane over the years of road travel.

I guess I'm not yet convinced that you are seeing a frame warp. Those frames are pretty sturdy. You've looked them over pretty well, and found the frame to be solid and rigid. My money is still on body issues. However, be sure to check the welds in the A-frames, especially if you have a swing tongue. Several years ago, there was a rash of failing welds up there.

I do use a WDH, which I don't really need but I use as a precaution. I have wondered if forcing the trailer frame to be rigid with my truck body is causing this problem.

I've never considered it, but I can't see that being a cause. I've used a WDH for three tow vehicles and 17 years of TMing, with no such result.

As I say, this is a long shot. I can see it being the cause of some of the things you've mentioned, but not all of them.

Bill

[Shane826]

Bill- You mentioned checking to see if the lift arm is parallel with the lower box (at least that’s what I think you said?)... I have a gap between the bed & bathroom lower box wall and the street side upper box wall. I noticed the rear lift arm is further from the box at the top than at the bottom, which (I think) would push the shell wall outward, creating the gap. Is there a way to fix this? It’s enough of a gap that you can drop your phone through it, and can feel a draft at all times.

[oldstick]

Just a note on the bathroom wall. Our 3023 bathroom has a small ledge of countertop material inside on the right as you look in the bathroom door. i.e. along the inside of the front wall.

I'm not sure if this would cause the alignment problem you noted, but I noticed our ledge was tilted recently then later it completely separated from the hinge and slide pieces underneath.

Apparently it was attached with staples and a little glue originally. I was in shock at first until I saw it would be easy to fix. The strip is basically the top component of the slide/hinge mechanism, so all I had to do was set the bathroom up, get it all aligned right with the counter top pressed down in the proper position, then I drilled several pilot holes then deck screws to refasten it back to the wood beneath. The holes were along the edge near the wall so we could still put items on the ledge when camping.

[nwhouston]

As I mentioned in the 'bounce' thread we are off to Virginia to camp for a few weeks. So the continuing issue of mis alignment in our upper shell will present itself in a door that does not close and a front upper shell piece-to-back upper shell piece seal on one side that does not mate up like it should (see pic).

So I am setting up the trailer, and standing a straight edge next to the offending side as Bill suggested. See pic. The distance from the edge of the board to the lower box is 6" at the top and 6.25" at the bottom.

I am open to any last minute suggestions of areas to check. At this point I think I have run to ground every lead that seemed close to my issue but with no joy. Even three hours at an RV tech's shop trying to push, shove and measure looking for the real problem.

Basically my front top shell is no longer square. The vertical white support arms are all at the same point in terms of where the torsion bar end fits into the lower end of the white arms. All nuts are tight, with no evidence of any movement. The RV tech could not move any thing up or down on the two we tried to fool with (ones on the very front). I have attached a few pix that seem to say the white arms are reasonably vertical.

So open to ideas. Appreciate all thoughts, Larry.

[Larryjb]

It looks like something similar may have be happening to your TM as mine. The lift arms should keep the upper shell square. I did notice that your liftarm was not vertical. I have the same issue withone of my lift arms. In my case, believe the torsion bar does not make a 90 degree angle as it goes into the bottom of the lift arm.

As for adjusting the height, that should be easy. Set the trailer up, support the shell in the corner you are going to adjust, then loosen all 4 bolts. Tap the bolts so they are free and loose. Because the lift arm is pinched onto the torsion bar, it will need to be tapped free. This is why the RV dealer couldn't raise or lower the shell. To lower the shell, you may need to tap the bottom of the torsion bar so it goes in to the lift arm more.

[nwhouston]

Larry, if I understand your recommendation, go to the lift arm for the upper shell that is near the door. (Loosening the bolts, tapping and banging I understand, we did that at the RV tech, even tried various sprays and hydraulic jacks. Nada.) I can give it a go on that arm (if I have the right one in view) when I get up to Virginia. If that corner would sit back down then the very front would come up and I might have good alignment again.

How hard was it for you to get movement of the white arm once the four bolts are loose. My RV tech has some serious guns, and tools, and no movement. We were working the front lift arm on the same side.

Thanks for the quick input. Larry

[BrucePerens]

There are a number of points in the Trailmanor design that will not maintain dimensions as fine as you might like. The lift arms don't really have an axle or a bearing at the bottom, they just attach to the torsion bars. The lift arm pocket in the shell tends to bend out from the wall. The shell tends not to stay square, and load on the top of the shell tends to make it sag. Many, many components were assembled with a staple gun. The composite plastic-wood molding used to anchor the vinyl cracks all over.

As far as I can tell, the big mechanical things are design limitations, and the smaller ones due to shoddy construction. There are some potential fixes that could be implemented. For example, a split shaft collar and pillow block could be placed at the bottom of the lift arm to increase its stability. I am implementing an external frame on my front shell roof to correct the sag. And there are some issues that really only look bad, which I think you simply have to resolve to live with.

And at least on my trailer, some of them show up more if I haven't leveled the trailer before opening it.