Sienna Towing a 3023???

Hello, My family and I are very interested in getting a Trailmanor. I have a 2005 Sienna with tow package. My tow weight is 3,500 pounds, but was wondering if there is anything I could do to the Sienna to have it pull the 3023? If I put 600 pounds of stuff in the 3023(for example), I would go over. I heard that this is usually what people add to the Trailmanor, (such as the air and heat, TV, water, etc...) I know that the 2720 would work, but we would have 2 adults, 2 children and possibly 3 adults in the camper when my dad comes along. I am thinking the 2720 may be too small for all of us. We have not seen one yet in person, but I emailed Trailmanor to see if they will be at the RV show in Edison NJ come September.

[Mr. Adventure]

There are several posters who have reported good experience with the Sienna. Check out this thread:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=6995

[Bill]

Over the last few years, there has been a lot of discussion on this topic. A few of our members approve, and even encourage, the use of lightly-rated tow vehicles. Some of our members are on the other end of the spectrum, and are very, let's say, skeptical, about lightweight tow vehicles. There is no cast in concrete answer, and we are not going to come to a consensus on this board. And there are a lot of variables that you need to consider, but haven't mentioned in your post.

The amount of discussion is way too much to repeat here, so I suggest that you spend some time browsing through the Tow Vehicles forum, and especially the threads having to do with other small or lightly-rated tow vehicles. You might speed up the process by using the Search tool with the term "3500 +pound" (without the quotes). And if you plan to carry 3 adults and 2 kids and all their stuff, and still tow a trailer, you might also do a Search on the term "asterisk" or "options".

To address one of your questions directly, I am unaware that there is anything you can do to increase the tow capacity of a vehicle beyond the manufacturer's rating. In fact, there are several things you must do to even reach the manufacturer's rating.

As Mr. Adventure points out, you can find on this board people who have used all kinds of lightly-rated tow vehicles. Some of them are happy with their experience, but some are definitely not. None of them has had the 20,000-mile-plus sort of accumulated experience that will really tell the story about the long-term effects of stressing or overloading the tow vehicle.

Bill

I can't imagine towing much more than a 2720 with my Odyssey, which is similar to the Sienna, but you may have better luck, I think the Toyota ratings don't decrease if you have extra passengers, etc. but can't remember I know it's been discussed here a LOT.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by jpcoll01

I think the Toyota ratings don't decrease if you have extra passengers, etc. but can't remember I know it's been discussed here a LOT.

Yup. That's called the "Ignore the manufacturer's tow ratings, they just put them on for the fun of it" approach.

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill

Yup. That's called the "Ignore the manufacturer's tow ratings, they just put them on for the fun of it" approach.

Bill

Definitely not where I was going with that, I think Toyota measures their ratings different than others, I know my Honda takes weight directly from the tow rating for every passenger, etc. you have inside, I'm not sure Toyota is the same. I wasn't suggesting anyone ignore the manufacturer's ratings.
Pat

[Mr. Adventure]

For my Toyota vehicle, the GCWR is 8485# (page 207 of the owner's manual), exactly 3500# above the GVWR of 4985# (driver's side door post sticker). This means there is approximately 4700# between the empty weight of the TV and the manufacturer's Gross Combined Weight Rating. Those who can't find room for a TrailManor in there somewhere are just going to have trouble getting along with me.

I've never made even the slightest suggestion that somebody else doesn't need their truck for whatever they do or wherever they want to do it. But I feel strongly that I don't need a truck to tow my TrailManor, and I believe that being able to tow an RV with the vehicle you're otherwise happy to drive to work every day is a tremendous asset that allows an RV to make sense where it otherwise can't in these days of $4 gas. Much of what is posted as expert advice in these forums is just opinion about vehicles which the poster has never driven, let alone towed anything with. The actual experiences of the owners of these vehicles should prevail over those who offer opinions without personal knowledge or experience.

I also believe that towing is a serious business that requires extra diligence and care. No one should take it lightly or hit the Interstate at the same speeds or following distances they would drive without a trailer.

For me, the most authoritative source for TrailManors is this one:

http://www.trailmanor.com/


"A few more notes about tow ratings:

Tow ratings for vehicles should be described as “general guidelines”. Actual towing limits depend on towing speed, highway grades, elevation, desired acceleration, miles towed per year, tow vehicle loading, frontal area of trailer, sway resistance of trailer, etc.

TrailManor provides uniquely easy towing per pound due to the very low wind drag and the very stable ride resulting from axle placement.

Light duty towing of a well-balanced trailer a few hundred pounds above the rating is much safer than towing a lighter, poorly balanced unit with a tendency to sway. Also, towing an upright trailer with large frontal area at highway speeds can damage a transmission even if the trailer weight is below the tow rating.

Adding options, batteries, gear, fluids can increase loaded weights as much as 1000 pounds above the base weight of a specific trailer. You should add 500- 1000 pounds to the base weights to estimate the actual towed weight.

Based on feedback from our owners, we provide the following model guidance:

MODERATE TOWING CONDITIONS
Mostly low altitudes, only occasional steep grades, part time service, normal highway speeds - Models 2619 through 3023 need at least 3500 pound tow rated vehicles and Models 3124 through 3326 need 4000 pound ratings.

SEVERE TOWING CONDITIONS
High mountain towing, full time service - all models will perform better with at least 4000 pound rated tow vehicles."

I'd say, if it's possible with the Highlander, it'll be possible with the Sienna; assuming you set up everything correctly with a WDH. I'd also tow with empty water tanks, and a single battery. If I could ditch one of the propanes, I'd do that too and pack lightly for the rest.

A vehicle with a 5000lb rating will give a better margin of error.

Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure

I also believe that towing is a serious business that requires extra diligence and care. No one should take it lightly or hit the Interstate at the same speeds or following distances they would drive without a trailer.

That is a very important statement whether your TV has a 3500 lb. rating or a 9500 lb. rating.

You get a "big amen" from me, Mr. Adventure.

Chap

As others have mentioned, this can be a very controversial topic. That said, a large part of the equation is your comfort level and where you will be towing.

If you are towing across flat, coastal areas (low altitude), you'll find a vehichle near its' maximum tow rating will probably do better than you would find if you were towing in the mountains (you can figure that gross combined weight - not maximum trailer weight - will decrease about 2% per 1000 feet of altitude; this isn't a "fact", and it is subjective, but I've seen it referenced several times; That means a 1/2 ton pickup might lose 1/3 of it's maximum trailer weight from a performance - not safety standpoint - at an altitude I live at, 6,000 feet).

I think distance and frequency of towing make a difference too. A large vehicle is less stressful for me to tow with for long distance (despite the fact that I prefer the drivability when *not* towing of compact cars over anything bigger than a compact car). I tow about 10,000 miles a year, often on trips of several thousand miles. That's different than towing a 50 miles to a nearby campground, and doing that only a few times a year.

Think about stuff you will want to take with you - I typically travel fairly lightly in the TM, but fairly heavy in the truck bed. I might have a motorcycle back there or 35 gallons of fresh water plus another 35 gallons of gray water (I use holding tanks in my truck to extend my camping stays). I couldn't do that with most small SUV's or small trucks.

As for mileage, a vehicle with a large engine might not get any worse mileage while towing than one with a small engine - the diesel I drive gets nearly the same mileage towing as not as the extra weight and wind resistance of the trailer is countered by slowing down 10 MPH. I suspect a smaller vehicle will take more of a mileage hit, and may even end up in the same MPG area as my diesel!

I do agree with everyone's statements about being careful towing. Even with a large vehicle, it can be amazing how quickly things can happen while towing, and it will affect even how a large vehicle handles. I get a bit concerned anytime someone tells me "I don't even know the trailer is back there." I've never not known the trailer is behind me, no matter what I am driving!

So, in summary: think about what you are comfortable with and be honest with yourself. It can be an expensive mistake if you are wrong about this and end up wanting/needing a larger vehicle, but it can be equally expensive if you buy one and never need it! A lot of the issues come down to driver comfort and how you plan on towing. And you certainly don't need a large vehicle, but you may or may not need one larger than you have.